A way to balance the greataxe with the greatsword

[chriton227]

So, the greatsword is average 7 + (7 x 10%), while the greataxe is 6.5 + (13 x 5%).

This pattern extends regardless of the damage bonuses too. Once you factor in the crit chances and multipliers, you end up added 1.1 x damage bonus to the average damaage of either weapon, so the difference stays consistantly at 0.55 points in favor of the greatsword.

Having said that, I'm firmly in the camp that feels that 0.55 average damage is a small price to pay for the massive damage possible on a crit. A 1st level barbarian with a 16 Str can crit while raging for for 3d12+21, (24-57), making it one of the only characters that can force a massive damage save on its own at 1st level. A greatsword wielder needs a +13 damage to be able to force the massive damage save at all.

 

[Feldspar]

Having said that, I'm firmly in the camp that feels that 0.55 average damage is a small price to pay for the massive damage possible on a crit.

Ah, but I feel like crits come rare enough that to roll a 1 or 2 and waste that opportunity to tear a nice, big chunk o'hide out of the enemy would feel like a huge disappointment.

But I do appreciate that for you, the d12 fits your personality and how you like to play. That's why above where I said the two weapons should have the same damage dice, I also said I would leave the option for a player to voluntarily "downgrade" from 2d6 to the lesser average damage of the d12 if that's what they wanted.

A 1st level barbarian with a 16 Str can crit while raging for for 3d12+21, (24-57), making it one of the only characters that can force a massive damage save on its own at 1st level. A greatsword wielder needs a +13 damage to be able to force the massive damage save at all.

Umm, how many creatures do you fight at first level that have more than 50 hitpoints?!!? Even an Ogre only has 29.

Massive damage is kind of a wierd rule. Most things that can shake off a >50 hit point strike tend to have good fort saves. Take a troll for example, 63 hp and a Fort save of +11. Its not until you start getting higher levels where caster types have the hps to survive the blow but a low fort save that it matters. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that this increases lethality (to the players detriment) the same way the variant "triple 20 equals instant kill" rule does.

Anyway, at that point (higher level) the majority of your damage is going to be from fixed values (str, magic, power attack, specialization, etc), so the threat/crit type of your weapon will be the most important factor in terms of whether you'll be inflicting massive damage, with 1d12 vs 2d6 a minor concern.

 

[Felnar]

greatswords have more hardness (10 vs 5)
greataxes are cheaper (20gp vs 50gp)

 

[Stalker0]

A 1st level barbarian with a 16 Str can crit while raging for for 3d12+21, (24-57), making it one of the only characters that can force a massive damage save on its own at 1st level. A greatsword wielder needs a +13 damage to be able to force the massive damage save at all.

The problem with the x3 crit is that much of the time the extra damage is wasted. I've seen plenty of times when a x2 crit would be just as lethal, and occurs twice as often. 19-20/x2 and 20/x3 are equal stastically, but when you include that fact the edge goes to 19-20/x2

 

[Feldspar]

The problem with the x3 crit is that much of the time the extra damage is wasted. I've seen plenty of times when a x2 crit would be just as lethal, and occurs twice as often. 19-20/x2 and 20/x3 are equal stastically, but when you include that fact the edge goes to 19-20/x2

Yes, but there are times when threats are wasted because the attack cannot hit. This most often happens when the threat range has been expanded (keen weapon or Imp. Crit feat), especially with large threat range weapons like rapiers.

Threat range vs crit modifier is something I think is actually balanced fairly well and that just comes down to personal choice. And that's whether you care at all ... when I'm creating a character, that's not going to affect my decision of whether that character would use longsword vs a battle axe or warhammer.

But the difference between 1d12 and 2d6 would cross my mind and it actually does seem to influence a lot of people's decisions.