A worry about "special case monster abilities"

[Plane Sailing]

On the whole I'm encouraged by the idea of 4e MM creatures having all the information needed to play them effectively in the stat block.

There is one thing that I'm worried about though, and I hope it doesn't happen - and that is a proliferation of "special case monster abilities".

An example from 3e that always jarred with me was the Bebeliths ability to 'rend armour'. It seemed strange that it had such a unique ability (surely anything huge+ with claws should be able to do that?). It stood out like a proud nail when compared to the pretty standard way most other monster abilities were handled.

The Bugbear in the playtest report using a grappled foe as a 'human shield' sounds like it might be a 4e case in point, if that is an ability that Bugbears have but other similarly sized or bigger humanoid monsters don't.

We know hardly anything about the 4e monster entries so far, of course. The proof of the pudding will be seen when the 4eMM is actually available.

But not too many Bebilith proud nails, I hope!

Cheers

 

[Callikah]

the way i see it if the bugbear does have that ability but others dont i can just houserule it so they do

 

[I'm A Banana]

So you mean abilities that would make sense for many creatures to have, but that only one or two creatures actually have?

Yeah, that'd kind of bug me, too.

 

[Rechan]

To circumvent the video game comparisons...

This happened less recently than WoW. Take a gander at M:tG. You have Goblin snipers, goblin digging teams, etc etc. Each Monster has a unique ability that another monster Does Not Have.

If we're going to compare this to anything, it's a board game, not a video game.

And for the record, I for one have no problem with this. Among other things, I'm certain that we'll see abilities like this when more splat books are put out.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The Bugbear in the playtest report using a grappled foe as a 'human shield' sounds like it might be a 4e case in point, if that is an ability that Bugbears have but other similarly sized or bigger humanoid monsters don't.

This is certainly a valid concern, but I really hope this was just new, cool grapple rules. I have a feeling that the whole "Strangler" business means that it's a special ability though (rather than a tactic to use a certain non-unique ability).

If we're going to compare this to anything, it's a board game, not a video game.

Why? Board games are both less relevant and less apposite. Video games frequently have this problem and they show how extremely annoying and stupid it can be. I've never seen a board game which had this problem. TCGs are entirely different style of game - the entire POINT of them is in the uniqueness of each card!

 

[PeelSeel2]

I like the idea. You can tailor a monster to fit your vision of the part it is supposed to play in your story line. Who cares if other monsters do not have it!! It also keeps the characters guessing and on their feet. This is a welcomed change from the rigidity of the 3.x mosters rules...uugggghh!

 

[Rechan]

This is certainly a valid concern, but I really hope this was just new, cool grapple rules. I have a feeling that the whole "Strangler" business means that it's a special ability though (rather than a tactic to use a certain non-unique ability).

Ahem

It's a unique ability for that bugbear. It isn't part of the core grapple rules for a couple reasons. The big one is that it would be really annoying if the PCs (or a big monster) could do that in every fight.

It's tempting to make it a core rule, or put that rule into grapple, but here's why we didn't.

One of the aims of 4e was to make the rules that everyone needs to know as small as possible. The game becomes complicated very quickly, as you add in powers and rules to cover all the corner cases, so it's important to reign that stuff in. Otherwise, you end up with a bloated mess.

So, things like the human shield maneuver are there for specific monsters. I imagine that when we do unarmed combat maneuvers, you'll find something similar. I also believe that the rogue has some abilities to trick enemies into missing the rogue and hitting one of the monster's allies.

Now, rules bloat is a bad thing, but it also lets you do more stuff simply by mapping out more ground. The aim with the DMG is to give enough of a framework that a DM can easily adjudicate stuff on the fly in response to crazy ideas that the players come up with.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

No, Mearls specifically said that the Human Shield and strangle thing was something specific to the bugbear. Human shield and strangle rules aren't in the grapple rules.

Well, that's extremely stupid, I have to say. There are likely to be plenty of PCs of the same size, strength and "rogue-ish-ness" as a Bugbear strangler. Honestly, it's a retarded throwback to the days of Bugbears throwing maces but no-one else being allowed to.

 

[DandD]

Well, a goblin sniper, a goblin digging team, and so on aren't really that much different monsters. They're all goblins with just some kind of specialization, just like a human wizard, a human fighter and a human rogue still belong to the race of man.

 

[Rechan]

Well, a goblin sniper, a goblin digging team, and so on aren't really that much different monsters. They're all goblins with just some kind of specialization, just like a human wizard, a human fighter and a human rogue still belong to the race of man.

Aware of that. Just pre-empting dodging the inevitable Video Game comparison.