D&D 5E Abandoning attunement and scaling back concentration

werecorpse

Adventurer
I’ve played D&D since 1e though skipped 4e and played 3e/pathfinder during that era and have played 5e close to RAW since it came out. Two of the rules which are supposedly in place to keep a lid on characters getting too powerful are the magic item attunement limit and concentration mechanic. I plan to get rid of attunement and rework most of the phb concentration spells to enable upcasting the spell to cast it without concentration and here is my thinking on both.

Bear in mind this is obviously a discussion about homebrew rules so I am not considering adventurers league, nor am I calling the current rules dumb they have to work for a wide range of tables including open play games I’m talking about changing them in my games which are long term games/campaigns that run with for years and across all levels.

Attunement is meant to act to control the amount of magic items a character can have but whether they are attunable or not is largely irrelevant to the impact the magic items will have in the game. +3 plate doesn’t require attunement, boots of levitation do (and using them requires concentration btw). In practice the attunement limit is only relevant if the GM gives out sufficient magic items that it comes into effect (if they don’t it is irrelevant) at which point it’s effect is to stop the players from getting to use some of the magic items they have found unless they aren’t using others they have found. I largely believe the obligation to balance items given out is on the GM- this is how it worked from1e-3e and still should be the case. Also getting to use the treasure and the magic items you find in the game is one of the fun parts of the game. Thus imo the attunement limit in a practical sense works more as a limit on fun than other stuff. My high level character with his belt of dwarvenkind, pearl of power and staff of healing isn’t that interested in the cool wand of web - it’s not overpowered for sure but I’m not going to waste an Attunement slot on it, maybe I can trade it for a third wand of magic missiles they don’t require attunement?

As for concentration; in the game of Bushido They limited spell stacking by saying that certain spells couldn’t be active on the same person at the same time ie no stoneskin and resist elements. This wasn’t a bad way to limit spell stacking. In 5e they’ve gone the other way by saying that your limit is based in the number of casters you have. Like attunement I see this as not a big deal at low level but at higher level begins to suck the fun out of the game. The fighter needs stoneskin because we are fighting giants so the Mage can’t fly or be invisible or cast a wall spell ok I guess I’ll just cantrip or lightning bolt each round. Having played earlier editions I’m aware of the problem where the caster starts each combat with 7+ spells up. This meant that the difference between the characters who had a minute to prepare and when they didn’t was vast making balancing encounters very difficult. Ie In 1e - 3e If the party is ready to fight the 4 chimera and their fire giant beastmaster it’s a tough fight, if not they will get smashed. This is less so in 5e because you can’t overprepare. However in 5e characters have very few high level spell slots, and not an over abundance of low level ones they already have a massive limitation built in. So what I have done is go through the phb and for most concentration spells I’ve allowed a caster to rid themselves of the concentration requirement by upcasting the spell 1-2 levels. So web cast as a 3rd level spell doesn’t need concentration, same with blur cast as a 4th level spell, greater invisibility when cast as a 6th level spell. I’ve kept concentration as unremoveable for some spells (spirit guardians for example it lasts a long time otherwise ).

With both of these I acknowledge they empower players a bit more but I’m not worried about game balance issues - it’s a home campaign and I can handle that side of it.

I hunted around a bit to see how others have dealt with these issues but couldn’t find much so I’m posting this to see what others have done and what they think.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Removing Concentration will vastly increase the power of certain types of casters by both allowing lots of Concentration spells (such as several crowd control) as well as removing the primary way for foes to remove spells. I know you said you aren't worried about balance issues, but I am worried on your behalf. This throws the balanced between the casters and the rest of the classes out of whack pretty severely.
 

cmad1977

Hero
I’m sure it will be fine.
I haven’t run across any issue with either set of rules myself. High level play(or should I say enjoyment/engagement) wasn’t affected by people being unable to stack spells and the fighters were plenty effective without a host of buffs on them. Attunement never really became an issue. Once or twice someone changed items or something.

I imagine you won’t run into anything too game breaking. Especially if you remember how powerful spellcasters are AS ENEMIES. Otherwise this is kind of a buff to all the caster classes.
 


werecorpse

Adventurer
Removing Concentration will vastly increase the power of certain types of casters by both allowing lots of Concentration spells (such as several crowd control) as well as removing the primary way for foes to remove spells. I know you said you aren't worried about balance issues, but I am worried on your behalf. This throws the balanced between the casters and the rest of the classes out of whack pretty severely.

Can you give me some examples of spells or spell combos that if required to be upcast by 1-2 levels to remove concentration would be overpowered in your opinion?
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Can you give me some examples of spells or spell combos that if required to be upcast by 1-2 levels to remove concentration would be overpowered in your opinion?
Off the top of my head, Hypnotic Pattern. Only a 3rd level spell it's an area of effect crowd control without a recurring save. Upcasting at 4th or 5th isn't bad. You remove one of the major ways to remove it - damaging the caster. In addition the caster can do it again on future rounds to incapacitate more and more of the foes. Defeat them in detail.

Haste is a very useful spell, especially when twincast by a sorcerer. Also only 3rd level. Part of the balance of the spell is an enforce round of lethargy where the target can do nothing when the spell ends. However, without the ability to interrupt concentration, that balance point will very rarely come into play (only very long combats). In addition normally that each caster can only have a single target with that spell - but you can then cast if in the next round on another weapon wielder for even more mayhem.

The classic warlock combo of darkness and devil's sight requires Concentration for darkness. With the warlock's slots always at the highest, they will be upcasting it with no additional cost soon. Leaving them free to do another concentration spell like Hex, and then spamming those multiple Eldritch Blasts with advantage and extra hex damage. Oh gosh, I forgot Hex which already can be upcast to last 8 hours with a 3rd level slot - once you hit warlock 7 or 9 (depending on +1 or +2 not to concentrate), Hex is now unable to be broken by damage, lasts all adventuring day (so not taking a slot after a rest), and not blocking Concentration. Nice upgrade.

Remember that just because they can upcast doesn't mean they need to. A caster can upcast a spell round one, and then cast it or a different spell as normal round two using a lower slot. Twice as much concentration spells going on, and one is still undispelable by damage. Lots of normal concentration spells are nasty when paired with another concentration spell. Once your casters are into Tier 2 or higher they can really take advantage of it.
 
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werecorpse

Adventurer
Thanks for the reply.
I had hypnotic pattern only at +1 level to make it non concentration because in my experience creatures snap out of it through damage pretty quickly but I see the issue given that you can’t save to break it. Maybe I’ll make it +2.
Haste I have as +2 levels already (and I’ve changed the +2 AC to make it disadvantage on opportunity attacks due to bounded accuracy issues). I agree it’s a good spell and the twinning is a powerful way to nova it but it’s only a 10 round buff so I’ll wait and see. I like that a hit to the hasting sorcerer doesn’t also rebuff the fighter and if it’s saved for a final fight in high tier 2+ adventure a DM expects a bit of spell buffing shenanigans.
Darkness, hex and hunters mark I haven’t allowed casters to remove the concentration requirement as part of upcast. But by the way when a spell already gains a benefit from upcast (like say invisibility which I allow to be non concentration at +2) you still need to upcast extra levels to gain the non concentration benefit. So casting invisibility with a 6th level slot you can make 5 people invisible and concentrate OR 3 and not concentrate.
 


werecorpse

Adventurer
How about something a little different: no attunement is required for common or uncommon magic items, but all magic items of rare and higher require attunement.
That’s a perfectly reasonable halfway house. But as I say I just don’t see a significant benefit of the attunement limitation.

I think lots of 5e stuff is an improvement, especially bounded accuracy, but not this.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Thanks for the reply.
I had hypnotic pattern only at +1 level to make it non concentration because in my experience creatures snap out of it through damage pretty quickly

That should only happen ONE time - the first time. After that, if the rest of the party is being that level of unwise, then you have more issues with your game than anything you're proposing. The entire point of the spell is to disable some monsters while the other PCs mop up those not caught in it, and then to take on the rest one at a time. If they're just snapping them out of it with damage randomly, they're definitely not working with the spell caster.

It's a very powerful spell (more powerful than fireball in my opinion). It's already a spell commonly upcast, often by multiple levels.

The next spell I can think of which would be a serious issue if concentration were removed is spirit guardians (which is also more powerful than fireball in my opinion).

You said earlier the limit of concentration is just number of spellcasters but that's not the whole picture. BREAKING concentration through damage is a major part of the game, particularly at higher levels. You're removing that. I think there are spellcaster players who would be happy to burn an extra higher level spell slot just to remove the chance of breaking concentration. You stick a crown of madness on a PC with a low wisdom save and remove the ability to break it by breaking the concentration of the caster to end that spell, and your party is suddenly in much more trouble than a normal crown of madness spell.
 
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