Abilities for a natural attack & monk unarmed strike

[Kyllian Franken]

If a creature has a natural attack (in this case 'bite') and has an ability that works with his bite attack. (free trip action when he hits with an bite attack)
Can he also trip when he uses his teeth for an unarmed strike, because a monk can use every body part for an unarmed strike.
Flavour & mechanic wise, it makes sense but the rules don't always allow things that make sense.
I searched a lot for the answer and couldn't find one. I could only find if you could use both unarmed strike & natural attack in a full round attack.

 

[Dandu]

I sense that this question has been gnawing at you. In order to get to the root of the matter, we must understand the difference between an unarmed strike and a natural attack.

 

[Kyllian Franken]

So that's a no. That article is very clarifying. I understand now that it doesn't make sense rule wise. Flavour wise it still does.
If I take the the following feat for the bite attack, I can use my bite attack just as my Unarmed strike. Am I correct?


Unorthodox Flurry
You are trained in a monastic tradition that uses nontraditional weapons.
Prerequisite Flurry of blows ability.
Benefit Choose one light weapon. You become proficient with that weapon and can use it as a special monk weapon. You can use your unarmed base attack when striking with it, including your more favorable number of attacks per round.You can also make a flurry of blows attack with this weapon. (You cannot choose a light exotic weapon unless you already have proficiency with that weapon.)
Normal Without this feat, monks only gain these benefits with specific weapons: the kama, siangham, or nunchaku.

 

[Dandu]

The answer is still no, because the monk lacks a natural bite attack. Human mouths are not built to deliver deadly bites. It's an anatomical impossibility, which is one of the many reasons why a zombie apocalypse is unlikely to happen.

 

[Deset Gled]

I love monks, and has spent countless hours on ENWorld arguing about the pedantic details of unarmed strikes, natural attacks, feats, and other monk special abilities. After years of considering all the data, rules, and errata, and listening to the viewpoints of hundreds of individuals both on the internet and in person , I believe I have come up with the ultimate solution for your problem. Believe it or not, there is actually a a concise and simple way to use the Rules As Written to handle the delicate interaction between unarmed strikes, monk special abilities, and natural attacks. Here it is:

The first time a player mentions their monk character using natural attacks in any way, the DM takes the PHB and slaps the player upside the head with it.

This method is even more effective in Pathfinder campaigns, since the core rule book is so heavy.

 

[Kyllian Franken]

Dandu: As stated in the OP, I was not talking about a Human but a creature who has a bite attack, which gives a nice free trip attempt (no attack of opportunity and a +1 on the strength check)

Deset Gled: Even if there is practically no difference between the unarmed strike and the natural attack because it is turned into a monk weapon through a feat? The only reason I am considering this is because you get a free trip attempt (no attack of opportunity and a +1 on the strength check) with every hit. I think that's worth a feat. But if it's not please state why. I don't wont to make a mistake.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I highly recommend not trying to get bites to work with unarmed strikes. As you've noticed, the rules are all over the place and it'd be difficult to justify some of them. Also, keep in mind that natural weapons don't get iterative attacks (except with the Improved Rapidstrike feat), thus being allowed to treat the bite attack as an unarmed strike would not be in the spirit of the game so to speak, though the spirit of the game is dubious since going by that clerics are supposed to be healbots and are instead powerhouses capable of generally outdoing fighters in melee so easily it's not even funny.

If you're set on having natural attacks and unarmed strikes, try claws instead. There's a feat in Dragon Mag 355 called Beast Strike which lets you add your claw damage onto your unarmed strike damage. The most reasonable interpretation of that is it adds the base claw damage to the base unarmed strike damage instead of double dipping on strength to damage and such.

Several creatures can get trip attacks on claw hits too.

Or if you want any attack to grant a free trip, look at the Knockdwon feat. Easy way to get it is via the second level Barb ACF that trades Uncanny Dodge for free Improved Trip.

 

[Kyllian Franken]

My creature already has bite attack. Dammit forgot about the iterative attacks. Deset Gled, you were right in all cases


-edit-
Thanks for the edit, the character has improved trip so it can take that feat. Way easier. Thank you!!

 

[Deset Gled]

Even if there is practically no difference between the unarmed strike and the natural attack

*smack*

because it is turned into a monk weapon through a feat?

A natural attack is not a light weapon. It is treated as one for the purposes of Power Attack and certain other things, like grappling, but is not actually a light weapon. Therefore, the feat you posted cannot be used.

*thack*

I am considering this is because you get a free trip attempt

*bash*

Edit: Just saw your edit. Sorry about the smacks. But, really, screwing around with natural weapons and unarmed strikes is just never worth the hassle. Never.

 

[Kyllian Franken]

Deset: yes you may smack me for the first point, you are right.

Natural weapons are always considered light weapons.

That's a quote from wizards of the coast. So pleas tell me why I deserve the *thack* there.
And a free trip attempt is a good thing, isn't it? When they try to get up you get an attack of opportunity.
I just came here to learn so tell me why the *thack* & *bash*