Abilities: More, less or just right

[Sadrik]

Ive got a quick and easy fix for everyone that does not like the perception being tied to wisdom.

Here is the number one reason why I think that people dont like it. Clerics. Clerics should be no more better at spot and listen than any other class. If clerics have a high wisdom then they can see better, listen better survive better etc.

Here is my fix that I use in my game:
Divine casters use charisma for their spells.
Innate/Psionic casters use wisdom for their sells.

Now, innate (sorcerer) psionic (psion) characters should have the will save boost, they should be perceptive (IMO). The inwardly and outwardly conscious character is easily described as a monk or a... psion.

But how does having a cleric cast spells off of charisma make sense? Well...
Often we think of clerics converting others to their faith: what stat?
Often we think of clerics having a raport with their diety: what stat?
Often we think of clerics having powers of diplomacy: what stat?

Of course Charisma is the answer to all of them. Besides it fits with the paladin and makes the less "MAD", same is true with the cleric and their spell turning ability.

Sadrik

 

[dedicated]

If you don't like the 6 system stat, you could always try the 9 stats from White Wolf (but it would take so long to work out they'd probably have 4.0 by the time you did)

 

[Aust Diamondew]

While 6 ability scores aren't perfect they get the job done and they get it done very well. My only modification to the jobs of your ability scores is that your charisma score equals the number of action points you have. Gives charisma a nice boost.

 

[Tonguez]

If it was me I'd

1 split Wisdom and Perception
and modify Listen to include Smell and touch (with a feat) and call it awareness
2 split Dexterity (hand-eye coordination) and Agility
Dexterity would be used for knife fighting, ranged combat etc and Agility (representing a persons control of body movement) for Melee combat, initiative, speed (movement) etc NB I'd also add a movement skill to cover balance, claimb, run swim, fly etc
3 combine Strength and Constition into a single 'Body' stat
note a lot of the current Strength uses is now covered by Agility

so that gives us 7 stats in the end

Power
Agility
Dexterity
Perception
Wisdom
Intelligence
Charisma

 

[GreatLemur]

I think six is a pretty good number of stats, but I don't necessarily think that the ancient D&D STR-DEX-CON-INT-WIS-CHA array is the best way to go. Specifically, I'm not a big fan of how poorly-defined Wisdom and Charisma are, so I actually prefer the six stats from Unisystem: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Perception, and Willpower.

Wisdom was always a slightly confused stat, and it's only become moreso these days, now that it apparently involves common sense, sanity, perception, and willpower . . . except for the other kinds of willpower ("force of personality," Sorcerers' spellcasting, etc.) that are governed by Charisma. Personally, I'd be much happier removing things like common sense and personal charm from the arena of stats altogether, and just explicit Perception and Willpower abilities.

I also would create an Appearance score. Not all creatures would have an appearance score. Vermin do not usually care how other vermin look (that I have noticed), and to the point, it would not really matter to the characters.
Appearance only would fully effect how people perceive a person they have never met, but have seen; after that it would only have half the effect it did previously.

I've got to admit that I could never really get behind the idea of a stat govering physical attractiveness. It's way too subjective a concept, even in our world. In a setting where there are dozens of physiologically-diverse intelligent species running around, such a stat begins to look really silly.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I'd like to see a seventh ability score for magical power or the like, so a character could be a powerful spellcaster without also being highly charismatic/intelligent/wise. Many powerful fictional characters would have high mental abilities, but nowhere near all.

Geoff.

 

[The Souljourner]

The only thing I don't like about D&D stats is that nothing really works for perception. The problem with splitting it out into its own stat is that that stat has only one thing it's good for - a few skills. It'll just become another dump stat, and won't actually affect anything.

As for Charisma and Wisdom being ill-defined, I think you're wrong. Charisma is mental strength (force of personality), Wisdom is mental hardiness and stability (ability to withstand mental attack).

Although I think a magical power ability might be neat, it would be a total and utter dump stat for many characters.

I don't think physical attractiveness needs to be in a stat. That's really just for roleplaying purposes. If you want your character to be handsome, just delcare that he is. It shouldn't really affect much, since as soon as he goes to use his good looks to affect someone's behavior, his Charisma comes into play.

-The Souljourner

 

[Aus_Snow]

I'd like to see a seventh ability score for magical power or the like, so a character could be a powerful spellcaster without also being highly charismatic/intelligent/wise. Many powerful fictional characters would have high mental abilities, but nowhere near all.

Geoff.

Good call.

Reminds me of Night's Edge, Grimm's Cybertales et al. They added 'Psy' to the nine standard Cyberpunk stats; this can work just fine IME. In fact, they're very useful books IMO.

Their only suggested 'alternative' was, I think, to use Luck (one of the standard stats) to determine psychic potential and power etc. Blech.

 

[Kanegrundar]

The current six abilities works good for me. It's a good balance that works just fine for me.

Kane

 

[ARandomGod]

Personally, I'd be much happier removing things like common sense and personal charm from the arena of stats altogether, and just explicit Perception and Willpower abilities.

I have to agree with the GreatLemur here. I think that Wisdom and Charisma should be completely removed, and Perception and Willpower should be added. Get rid of the connotations associated with the words Charisma and Wisdom, and you'll remove a lot of confusion.

As for Charisma and Wisdom being ill-defined, I think you're wrong. Charisma is mental strength (force of personality), Wisdom is mental hardiness and stability (ability to withstand mental attack).

Charisma IS supposed to be mental strength. But that's not what the actual definition of the word means. And the connotation of the word is too strongly tied in with physical attractiveness. Whereas Wisdom also has other connotations and definitions than what it's actually played as. Plus, well, whiile the game does use the wisdom score as the ability to withstand mental attack... it's more used for perception. The game would be cleaner if the willpower save were moved to, well, willpower (which is clearly charisma). Because other than that all wisdom is is insight and perceptions.

And then, since you've taken away a save from wisdom (perception) move the "reflex" save to perception (wisdom). Leave dex with no save attached, it's still one of the stronger stats even without the save, and charisma really needs the extra boost. Besides, the "reflex" save makes more sense on a stat about insight and perceptions than on a stat that you don't get to use when surprised in any case other than that save.