Ability Damage-Based Spellcasting -- Comments?

[danzig138]

This is a system for spellcasting that is similar to that system provided in CoC d20, but designed for use with more typical d20 spells (levels and such). It is a rework of an older system I used. Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'm updating it since I'm converting my CoC d20 game to a slightly more heroic d20 Modern game based on the Night Warrirors.

CASTING A SPELL
Under this system, the only limit a character has on the number of spells he may cast in a given day is his ability scores. Every time he casts a spell, one of his ability scores is temporarily reduced. Other than this, all normal spellcasting rules, such as range, duration, casting time, and so forth are used.

ABILITY SCORE DAMAGE FROM SPELLCASTING
Immediately after successfully casting a spell, the caster loses a number of points from an ability score, with the amount determined by the spell level.

Spell Level -- Ability Score Damage
0 -- 0 – 1
1 -- 1d2
2 -- 1d3
3 -- 1d4
4 -- 1d6
5 -- 1d8
6 -- 1d10
7 -- 1d12
8 -- 2d8
9 -- 3d6
10* -- 4d6
11* -- 5d6
12* -- 6d6
13* -- 7d6
14* -- 8d6
15* -- 9d6

There are two methods used to determine which ability score is affected:

METHOD 1
When the character first learns a spell, select one ability score. From this point on, all ability score loss for spellcasting comes from this score. For example, Joe is third level when he first learns to cast a spell. He decides that his Charisma will be the ability score that suffers damage when he casts spells.

METHOD 2
Using this method, the spell’s school determines the ability score that is damaged:

• Abjuration: Wisdom
• Conjuration: Intelligence or Wisdom (player’s choice)
• Divination: Intelligence
• Enchantment: Charisma
• Evocation: Strength
• Illusion: Intelligence or Wisdom (player’s choice)
• Necromancy: Constitution
• Transmutation: Dexterity
• Universal: Player’s choice

For example, Joe wants to cast arcane eye, a fourth level divination spell. Under method 1, he would lose five points from his Charisma when he casts the spell. Using method 2, he would suffer a five-point loss to his Intelligence.

OPTIONAL
Spellcasting under this system can be devastating to the caster. If the Game Master approves, the spellcaster may receive a Fortitude save to reduce or negate the ability score loss from spellcasting. The DC for such a save is 15 + spell level. A successful save can have one of the two following effects:

• Reduce the damage to one-half (round up), with no minimum
• Reduce the damage to zero

The Game Master decides which of these two options will apply in the game.

METAMAGIC FEATS
Under this system, metamagic feats function normally. Simply determine the ability damage from the effective level of the spell.
For example, Joe wants to cast fireball, with the empower spell and enlarge spell feats applied to it. Empower spell uses a spell slot two levels higher than normal, increasing the effective spell level to five, and enlarge spell uses a slot one level higher, increasing the effective spell level to 6, so Joe’s ability damage, instead of 1d4 for a third level spell, will be 1d10, as if casting a sixth level spell.

In addition, there are 10 feats designed to work with this system. I figure I'll post those if anyone is interested.

 

[Xarlen]

Well, I figure that this would really suck unless you get some ability effecting spells. 2 6th level spells and the caster could be wiped out completely, especially if it's Evoction, seeing as Casters don't have large strenght.

 

[danzig138]

Low-Powered Intention

The feats, and attribute enhancing spells can certainly prolong your ability to cast, but this is designed for a more low-magic setting than say Greyhawk or the Realms, so yeah, it can suck if you're somewhere that you are going to need a lot of magical firepower.

 

[Tonguez]

Personally I like it. I've been toying with the idea of having Spellcasting drain Con and if the Caster doesn't get their 8 hrs rest they make a fort save or suffer 1 pt of permanent con damage!

Its suppose to explain why all those uber powerful wizards in the Conan stories were always so sickly and weak. It also explains why Wizards like to steal HP (ie sacrifice goats) when casting spells - they use the HP instead of their own Con.

Your Method 2 system of tying a particular ability to a School works well in my opinion (and limiting Evocation is a good thing afaic)

so yeah as long as your players don't mind rock on!

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I prefer the Shadowrun approach of spellcasting doing subdual damage-- unless you're casting magic well beyond your power, in which case it does real damage.

It allows magicians to be much more flexible with their usage of magic, but they have to be very careful about overextending themselves.

 

[Xarlen]

I prefer the Shadowrun approach of spellcasting doing subdual damage-- unless you're casting magic well beyond your power, in which case it does real damage.

It allows magicians to be much more flexible with their usage of magic, but they have to be very careful about overextending themselves.

Here here for Shadowrun magic. I just hated how long it took to get a spell.

 

[DreamChaser]

Okay, I'm going to nitpick for a moment just because the distinction is there for a reason.

You say:

When the character first learns a spell, select one ability score. From this point on, all ability score loss for spellcasting comes from this score. For example, Joe is third level when he first learns to cast a spell. He decides that his Charisma will be the ability score that suffers damage when he casts spells.

and then

For example, Joe wants to cast arcane eye, a fourth level divination spell. Under method 1, he would lose five points from his Charisma when he casts the spell. Using method 2, he would suffer a five-point loss to his Intelligence.

The system you are describing is ability damage though. There is no loss. This is a huge difference. Also, iirc, ability damage recovers at a rate of 1 point per day. Meaning it can take a person who casts a 9th level spell (and happens to survive it) almost 3 weeks to recover.

Also, this system seems to run into problems when you look at the ability boost spells (Cat's Grace is Transmutation which drains Dexterity) and the restoration spell (assuming that clerics use this same system). With the restoration spell, you'd need to decide when the drain happened: before, during, or after the spellcasting. Otherwise, the moment a cleric got this spell, they would never have to worry about the ability damage again.

I also think there are problems with the idea of sudual damage magic. Unless the amount of damage is fairly high, there is no real danger of running out of energy (except short term) because subdual damage recovers over time (no 8 hours of rest needed) and healing magic will make it recover (how do you adjudicate the Cure Wounds spells for clerics and bards?)

These systems would, unfortunately, require disecting the current magic system to make it work.

I like the idea of drain magic. The excecution is problematic, in my experience.

-DC

 

[danzig138]

The system you are describing is ability damage though. There is no loss. This is a huge difference.

There is a loss, I don't use the word "drain". The first sentance of Ability Damaged in the SRD is "The character has temporarily lost 1 or more ability score points. " The difference between that and Drain is that temporarily is replaced with permanently.

Also, iirc, ability damage recovers at a rate of 1 point per day. Meaning it can take a person who casts a 9th level spell (and happens to survive it) almost 3 weeks to recover.

Which is why, in my second post, I point out that this is designed for a more low-magic/powered setting. But like it says, there are 10 feats that accompany this, and some of those reduce the ability damage, and some of them increase the rate at which you recover ability damage from spellcasting.

Also, this system seems to run into problems when you look at the ability boost spells (Cat's Grace is Transmutation which drains Dexterity) and the restoration spell (assuming that clerics use this same system). With the restoration spell, you'd need to decide when the drain happened: before, during, or after the spellcasting. Otherwise, the moment a cleric got this spell, they would never have to worry about the ability damage again.

About Cat's Grace, that's why wanted comments...I assigned schools and ability scores by what felt right, but I'd be interested in differing opionion on the assignments. And, yes, Restoration would be very useful in restoring lost points, except that every time you cast it, you're looking at 1d6 points of Intelligence or Wisdom damage.

I also think there are problems with the idea of sudual damage magic. Unless the amount of damage is fairly high, there is no real danger of running out of energy

True. When I worked on a similar system for a SR conversion, I went with 1d6 real damage per spell level, with a Fortitude save to shift it to subdual damage. Much like with SR, it allowed people to cast low-powered spells quite a bit, saving the higher power spells for desperate situations.

The excecution is problematic, in my experience.

We all have different experiences, that's why I wanted input.

 

[danzig138]

Alternate Damage

SO I was thinking that the damage I have might be extreme, I dont know, so I came up with this:

Spell Level Ability Score Damage
0 0 – 1
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
7 7
8 8
9 9
10* 10
11* 11
12* 12
13* 13
14* 14
15* 15

Obviously, the ability damage is equal to the spell level, except for 0-level spells, where it is a two point range. Which seems better?

 

[DreamChaser]

the variable is better, IMO. If it is fixed, a player can look at his character sheet and know for sure that he can't afford to do anything. With the random, he will evaluate his chances of surviving and decide from there. I guess I would think of it as a measure of his ability to focus the magic to keep it from draining him. All things being equal (no feats to help, for example), there are still environmental factors that might affect his concentration or something like that. So the spell that drains him of 1 point could drain him of 4 points the next time he casts it.

I guess thinking about it now, I would have spellcasting drain one stat, rather than a different one based on school. This would keep the magic types a little more separate. Each class that ran out of their stat, would seem a little different. In addition, this would mirror more closely the benefits of high stats for spellcasters currently.

Wizards would fall into a coma caused by the magical energies they had channeled overwriting their ability to think.

Clerics/Druids would be wracked by horrific nightmares caused by feelings of despair and fear that their patron might forsake them.

Sorcerers/Bards would become gibbering and catatonic, unable to distinguish between themselves and others, their sense of self overwritten by the mystic forces they had focused.

One feat I think you could include (assuming you haven't already)would be Drain Soak, which would effectively grant a DR 1/- against spell cast ability drain. Also, one called Parasitic Drain, which would allow them to use a specially prepared creature as the source for the drain rather than themselves.


By the way, which spellcasting classes were you considering? How would sorcerers and wizards balance in this system? Or wizards and clerics?