Ability Scores (Heroic Array)

[Technik4]

I know everyone uses a lot of different ways to roll your scores, but this is an array I'm using to premake a bunch of 'heroes' for my new AE campaign.

16,15,14,13,12,11

You can raise the 16 to an 18 by lowering your 11 to a 7. I'm a big fan of 'heroic' heroes, IMC anyone who wants an 18 in one ability can get it without worrying about the randomness (or luck) of the die. Additionally, if you are picking a non-human race, you can usually elect to raise your 16 to an 18 through your racial bonus, or if you are daring, begin with a 20 (but where did that 7 go?).

Also, unless I approve, starting characters cannot place the 7 in Charisma (It's fine to put the 11 there though). Every other ability will result in a mechanically less powerful character (even a Magister with a 7 Str has problems), but it seems that cha remains the redheaded stepchild of ability scores - either you need it and want a high score, or you just honestly need the bonus in another score.

So, I'm looking for feedback: Should these scores be considered well within the means of what the MM and other monster books assume characters start with, or is it a bit high?

As a note, according to pg 169 of the 3.5 DMG, this array would be considered Super 'High-Power Campaign' (4 points above 'High-Power Campaign'). My concern rests that while I think it produces perfectly OK heroes, the DMG finds it munchy, and based on previous games/player reaction, they are 'too low'.

Thanks for any input.

Technik

 

[Sammael]

Speaking from my experience with regular D&D 3.x, this ability array is on the high-powered side and you will need to adjust encounter difficulty to account for the ability scores. I've certainly seen higher scores, and they are manageable, but I'd consider any player who finds this array "too low" to be a munchkin.

 

[Thanee]

Well it's 36 PB, given that the average is about 28 PB, that's pretty good.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

instead of saying players can't place the seven in charisma, why not have charisma actually matter??

 

[Technik4]

but I'd consider any player who finds this array "too low" to be a munchkin.

The people in question aren't really munchkins, but for the entirety of their D&D careers have used rather generous rolling techniques (4d6 drop lowest, 7 times, drop lowest). The old DM (who will be a player of mine) also allowed anyone to use anyone's rolls (thus trying to not penalize someone for rolling poorly). As a result, they frequently had rather godly rolls, which is why this array, while considerably more powerful than what the DMG prescribes, seems weak to them.

Also, while this is considered high according to PB rules, those rules assume the players can customize to their taste. I am not allowing adjustments (besides raising the 16 to an 18 and lowering the 11 to a 7) and thus I feel entirely judging it on that scale is biased.

Technik

 

[Technik4]

why not have charisma actually matter??

Charisma will play a part in the campaign, but assuming a group dynamic:

A) The party will have a negotiator who by and large will do the diplomat thing, having someone with low charisma in your group shouldn't necessarily skew any reaction towards a group as a low charisma implies a low self-worth or esteem (or an inflated tactless arrogance), not simply indicates they are disfigured or otherwise 'low'.

B) In combat Charisma affects very little (excepting certain classes, that want it). I will try to run a campaign with 1-2 fights a night (6 hours), so this will account for ~1/3 of the playtime.

C) The party will most likely have the negotiator do the work of buying/trading new items.

While charisma can affect characters it doesn't affect mechanically, in my experience it rarely does. This is different than a character's alignment (which we won't be using, as this is AE) which would frequently come into play.

Technik

 

[fanboy2000]

Well, you've given me an idea: Use the 32 point buy to make a default array for NPCs. I often roll challengeing NPC stats, but an array would be more convienant.

Your stats are fine. No penalties though. Personaly, I'd dump the 12, and make it an 8 or 9. Hero's often have to overcome a shortcoming. Bumping the 16 to 20 would then create 2 penalties. So, this is what I would sugest for pre-gen characters:

16,15,14,13,11,8

With the option to bump-up the 16 to 20 for an 8 instead of an 11. This would lead to min/maxing, but the end result should be fun to play and watch.

 

[Catavarie]

The people in question aren't really munchkins, but for the entirety of their D&D careers have used rather generous rolling techniques (4d6 drop lowest, 7 times, drop lowest). The old DM (who will be a player of mine) also allowed anyone to use anyone's rolls (thus trying to not penalize someone for rolling poorly). As a result, they frequently had rather godly rolls, which is why this array, while considerably more powerful than what the DMG prescribes, seems weak to them.
Technik

I do something similar to this, I roll 4d6 8 times and drop the lowest and the highest, helps to balance things out a little better, but while playing you have to remeber that even though the PCs are supposed to mortal and falable, they are also supposed to be heroes, and what kinda hero would a character be if their highest attribute was a 9

 

[BiggusGeekus]

16,15,14,13,12,11

You can raise the 16 to an 18 by lowering your 11 to a 7.

If it were me (and it isn't) I would change that to lowering the 12 to an 8. Too many players either won't see the -2 ability penalty for the gaping hazard that it is or they'll "over roleplay" the penalty. True, you'll get some guys who do a great job with it and if you have those guys in your group, all the power to you. But speaking as someone who doesn't know your group, I'd give it a second thought.

Another thing you may want to kick around is use the standard array, but give out attribute bonuses every couple of levels for great adventure/roleplay. This is what I enjoy. It lets the player point to a "free feat" I've given them and say "Yes, this +1 CON bonus is when I dove into the water and held my breath for three minutes in order to save the life of the Northern Princess".

For more examples of this kind of freebie, play Planescape Torment.

Also, unless I approve, starting characters cannot place the 7 in Charisma (It's fine to put the 11 there though). Every other ability will result in a mechanically less powerful character (even a Magister with a 7 Str has problems), but it seems that cha remains the redheaded stepchild of ability scores - either you need it and want a high score, or you just honestly need the bonus in another score.

I saw how you addressed Crothian's concerns. How about this: lower the number of points the PCs start with by maybe two. Now, tell them that their CHA bonus stacks with their WIS bonus for WILL saves. Sure, the sorcerors and bards will make out like bandits. But sorcerors already have a high will save so they won't benifit that much. And bards are genearlly considered a weak class by powergamer types (like me).

You'll have a party of diplomats in no time.

As a note, according to pg 169 of the 3.5 DMG, this array would be considered Super 'High-Power Campaign' (4 points above 'High-Power Campaign'). My concern rests that while I think it produces perfectly OK heroes, the DMG finds it munchy, and based on previous games/player reaction, they are 'too low'.

Well, players always think ability scores are too low. You really have to get the kind of player who thinks starting the game with a sucking chest wound is a fine way to kick off a campaign before you see the ones who like low ability scores. If they really feel it is too low, just tell them that lower ability scores is your way of making sure they keep the party together because they'll need each other that much more. Then split the party up forcibily and laugh like a sociopath.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

CUrrently I run a game with about a 35 point buy. Since I'm pretty well versed in the whole challenge rating thing now I've not had that hard a time coming up with challenging combats. Social situations are handled more through role playing than just rolling dice but I do use checks to guage how successful a particular encounter was. High ability scores seem to mean more for combat than anything else and it is easy to restrain the PCs slightly by simply being pretty stingy with magic items (which i generally am anyways - powerful magic items anyways. +1 items are fairly common since they are a more 'garden variety' magic any old hedge mage can slap together)