Able Learner

[StreamOfTheSky]

Thread Necromancy VI

It doesn't seem all that when multi-classing. It won't allow a character with max ranks in their class skill advance their skills as cross-class when they level their other class.

For example, I'm building a Bard/Fighter. I max out my Perform at 1st level. I take my next level as Fighter. I cannot add any of my Fighter skill points to Perform because I have already exceeded the max allowable skill points for Able Learner (Cross-class limit would be 2.5, so you'd lose half a point of your bonus.)

... unless I'm missing something.

And you are missing something. When you multiclass, any skills on any of your classes' skill lists permanently become "class skills" in terms of the limit on how many ranks you can put in (HD +3). But if you spend skill points from a class that lacks it as a class skill, you pay 2 skill points for every rank. Able Learner obviously removes this penalty, so in other words, Able Learner + class with all or nearly all skills as class skills = all skills are now class skills for you, both in cost and max you can invest.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm
"Skills
If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)

If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill. "

 

[Herobizkit]

Thanks, Stream! Everything is clear to me now, and I did it right the frist time I made the character (but then thought I didn't because it felt like I was cheating somehow).

 

[Thanael]

The ultimate feat resource online: Feats

Feat - Able Learner

 

[Zarndelius]

If it's a class skill regardless if you multi-class then what is the rational behind the Human Paragon ability that allows one skill to always be a class skill, regardless of the current class? (Curious as one of my characters has levels in Human Paragon and the Able Learner feat).

 

[Herzog]

The one skill of the paragon that allways is a class skill will allow you to spend one skillpoint per rank, regardless of your class, up to lvl+3.
All other skills that have been a class skill at one time can be bought up to lvl+3 as well, but cost two skillpoints per rank when bought with a class for which the skill is not a class skill.

Able Learner allows you to buy all skills at one skillpoint per rank, and allows you to buy them up to lvl+3 for those skills that have been a class skill at some point.

In other words, it makes the Human Paragon class skill kind of obsolete (unless it isn't one of your class skills for any of your classes, in which case it removes the cross class cap of (lvl+3)/2

 

[Zarndelius]

Just so I have this down, tell me if I'm correct.

A Human Paragon with the Able Learner feat:

*If at one time the skill was a class skill in a previous class, treat it as a class skill always.

*If it wasn't a class skill in a previous class, and isn't in your current class, then you may spend one point for one rank, but must obey the cross-class rank cap.

*The skill chosen for Human Paragon may be maxed (Lvl+3) as if it is always a class skill, not hindered by any means by the cross-class skill rules.

So tedious, and interesting if even if RAW, if it was intended to be as such.

I really don't see it hindering the skill monkey classes though, as the amount of skill points they get will still make them better, and they can always get able learner as well I suppose.

Googled "Able Learner" which is the very reason I brought this thread back to life, so thanks for the input.

 

[aboyd]

Zarndelius necro'd the thread.

Regarding the Human Paragon question, you should note that the rules only set the skill to use the class skill cap -- buying ranks still costs double. So the Human Paragon ability is still awesome.

In other words, say you have a rogue/fighter. The rogue maxes out his Hide skill. That's 4 ranks at level 1. Next level, he takes fighter. A fighter doesn't have Hide on his list of class skills, so he must pay double to put more ranks into Hide. However, the Hide skill is capped as if he still had it as a class skill. It only affects the cap. So technically, the fighter could get the Hide skill up to 5 now, but it'll cost him 2 points to gain that single rank he needs to get it up to 5 total.

Human Paragon selecting Hide for his "always a class skill" feature will allow him to spend 1 point to raise Hide 1 rank.

 

[Zarndelius]

I go off the SRD for UA material, as I don't have the book, but it stats

Adaptive Learning (Ex)
At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses Spot as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.

But the multi-class rules for skills mentioned above on a link provided states that the previous class skill (and not now a class skill) may follow the level+3 cap, but still needs the 2 points for one rank. Able Learner would would defuse this downfall.

At least that's my interpretation. The Adoptive learning does seem obsolete if you also have Able Learner, but still, picking which skills you can have as class skills as a human paragon is still pretty bad @$$. I mean your essentially (if you get Able Learner + Human Paragon) hand picking which skills you want for class skills forever.

 

[Herobizkit]

Sounds like to me that with Able Learner, you pay the same 1/skill rank skills from both classes of a multi-class character to count as a class skill when you level up the "other" class. And with Human Paragon, you get one more skill to count for both that you don't already have from Able Learner.

For example, a Fighter 1/Bard 1 has all Fighter and all Bard skills as class skills, and the Able Learner Feat. When he next levels up Fighter, he can pay the regular 1/skill rank to increase any of his Bard skills (versus each rank costing 0.5 for leveling a skill not associated with the new level increase).

Human Paragon can add a new skill that is not on the Fighter OR Bard skill list, and it will count as a class skill for Fighter AND Bard.

Meow?

 

[Particle_Man]

If you take Factotum for one level, all your worries disappear.