About Enervation

[Infiniti2000]

gives the enervation a little more fear factor, and eliminates a little bit of the PC cheese factor...

More fear factor? To a spell that should be banned? Um, no. Next thing you'll be saying is that the Orb spells should be conjuration and that haste should grant a standard action. Sheesh!

 

[Hypersmurf]

But, you have yet to prove that the caster level is, in fact, 0. Reread your quote and tell me which one of those "for determining" points applies to CL prior to casting the spell.

The power and duration of a spell are determined by caster level, not character level or class level; the effective level that is modified must, therefore, be effective caster level in the case of spellcasting.

Note also the difference between your quote (enervation) and actual energy drain or the glossary definition of negative level: "-1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level)."

What's the caster level of a 6th level paladin? How is it determined?

What's the caster level of a 4th level Cleric with the Good domain when casting a [Good] spell? How is it determined?

What's the caster level of a Wiz3/Ftr2 with the Practised Spellcaster feat? How is it determined?

What's the caster level of a 5th level sorcerer? How is it determined?

-Hyp.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The power and duration of a spell are determined by caster level, not character level or class level; the effective level that is modified must, therefore, be effective caster level in the case of spellcasting.

Okay. And that comment has little, if any relevance to my reply. Enervation reduces the effective level (explicitly) for determining . . .

It does not reduce it in all cases, such as for deciding what spells you can cast. Can you cast a 3rd level spell as a 6th level caster with 4 negative levels? Yes, you're still 6th level caster when you cast because that is not part of the "for determining" clause (at least this is the part you need to prove).

Your remaining questions are a non sequitur. I can't even understand their relevance to this topic, let alone your quote of mine.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It does not reduce it in all cases, such as for deciding what spells you can cast.

You can't really put "explicitly" at the start of a list which includes "and other details".

Your remaining questions are a non sequitur. I can't even understand their relevance to this topic, let alone your quote of mine.

If your level is used in a calculation, it is treated as one lower.

If this level refers to class level, then we have, for the ranger, a calculation using that level to determine caster level; his caster level is class level divided by 2. We have, for the cleric, a calculation, where his caster level is his class level plus 1. We have, for the multiclass Wiz/Ftr, a calculation, where his caster level is his wizard class level + 4, capped at his hit dice. The sorcerer's caster level is, in this case, his class level - it's a very simple calculation, but since his caster level is derived from his class level, it's a calculation nonetheless.

And when level is used in a calculation, it's treated as one lower.

So the caster level of a 6th level paladin is 6 / 2 = 3. The caster level of a 6th level paladin with one negative level is [6-1] / 2 = 2.

The caster level of a 4th level cleric with the Good domain when casting a [Good] spell is 4 + 1 = 5. The caster level of the same cleric with one negative level is [4-1] + 1 = 4.

The caster level of a 5th level sorcerer is 5 = 5. The caster level of a 5th level sorcerer with one negative level is [5-1] = 4.

-----

If the level referred to is not class level, but rather caster level, then there's no need to prove anything.

-----

If the level referred to is not class level, but rather character level, then the clause doesn't have a whole lot of effect; it's not very often that character level is used in a calculation. How many uses of Bardic Music do you have per day? Independent of character level, only dependent on class level. How much damage does a paladin deal on a Smite Evil? Independent of character level, only dependent on class level.

-Hyp.