D&D 3.x Absract mass-combat system for 3.5?

Nagol

Unimportant
Anyone know of a good abstract mass combat system?

The PCs have raised (a pretty impressive) army to do battle with an outsider incursion. We don't do wargaming generally and I'd prefer to find a battle resolution system that doesn't involve minis or battlemaps, but can allows PC decision-making.

Chivalry and Sorcery had a pretty good system, but the game systems (especailly magic expectations) are different enough that converting it would be a chore.
 

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Not really. HoB is about plunking the PCs into a set or war scenarios and having their encounter success/failures matter to the war effort and their personal glory.

I'm looking for a system that can handle a single large battle -- preferably in an hour or less -- where the PCs can make some stategic and operational choices but no tactical ones. The battle forces are going to be several thousand allies with a dozen of so 15+ level characters including the PCs versus about of thousand outsider wizards led by a 20+ leader.
 

Check out the Kingmaker adventure path by Paizo and in particular Issue 34 which outlines a set of mass combat rules of precisely the simplicity you are looking for. Being Pathfinder, it will match with 3.5 well. Since it is open content, you might find it on the PRD or elsewhere.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

Check out the Kingmaker adventure path by Paizo and in particular Issue 34 which outlines a set of mass combat rules of precisely the simplicity you are looking for. Being Pathfinder, it will match with 3.5 well. Since it is open content, you might find it on the PRD or elsewhere.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Thank, I already have Kingmaker, but didn't think to look to it for mass-combat. I'll take a look.
 

Step 1: Take $1500 out of your bank account and buy a large collection of Chaos minis from Games Workshop.
Step 2: Players get to buy from Imperial Guard, Space Marines, Tau, or Eldar.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.
 

There used to be a lovely PDF for 3.5 edition mass combat on DriveThruRPG.com. It was an excerpted chapter from a larger hardcover book. But you don't need the whole book or even the whole chapter to implement their system. It was very robust and clever, because it used the CR/EL system that is already in place. It worked like this:

  1. Break the armies down into opposed units. So let's say each side had 20 level 2 combatants, in units of 10.
  2. Assign an EL to each unit, using the normal DMG rules (page 49). So 10 level 2 warriors = EL 9.
  3. Pit the units against each other. Have each unit roll a d20 and add their EL. The side with the lower score must reduce their EL by 2 (this represents their losses). Keep rolling until a unit is destroyed (EL of 0 or worse), flees (at a loss of 2 EL), or surrenders.
  4. Half your losses can be recovered over a day.
That's it. Done.

Now, if you have a unit that is larger than what the DMG shows, just extrapolate. The chart in the DMG page 49 shows that a doubling of number = 2 EL more. So a unit of 20 should be 2 EL higher than a unit of 10. Or an EL of 11, in the example I've been using.

So let's play out those rules. Each side has 2 units. In each unit there are 40 1st-level grunts. That gives each unit an EL of 13. But oops! One of the units has a 6th-level PC leading it! That actually isn't a huge boost, if you look over the "mixed pair" numbers in the DMG chart. However, it's enough to grant a boost of 1 to the EL of that unit. So here we go:

bandit unit vs. guard unit with leader
1d20 + 13 vs. 1d20 + 14

  • roll 1: 22 vs. 16 = guards lose 2 EL
  • roll 2: 19 vs. 25 = bandits lose 2 EL
  • roll 3: 20 vs. 14 = guards lose 2 EL
  • roll 4: 22 vs. 19 = guards lose 2 EL (now at 8 EL)
  • roll 5: 14 vs. 20 = bandits lose 2 EL (now at 9 EL)
  • roll 6: 14 vs. 12 = guards lose 2 EL
  • roll 7: 17 vs. 13 = guards lose 2 EL
  • roll 8: 24 vs. 15 = guards lose 2 EL (now at 2 EL)
The guards are now probably hopelessly lost. They can flee, but they lose 2 EL in the process, and since they're already at 2 EL, that would effectively destroy them. They decide to surrender.

There, we just had a battle with 80 members, and resolved it with 8 opposed rolls.

Now, I did say that each side had two units. So we can do this same type of rolls again for the next group. Of course, since neither of those units contain a hero leading them, their EL is 13 each. Dead even fight, odds could go either way.
 

Spend a little time with Google, and I bet you'll find something on the net that will help you out. I've seen large-scale battle systems before.
 

aoe affects or mini handbook spells should be allowed to bump that number up or down a bit as well. otherwise, that is an excellent system as outlined.
 

You can also check out Green Ronin's Black Company d20 setting. The book has a pretty good section on combat, scaling it at 3 levels: individual (PC level), unit level (say a single company), and army scale (entire armies; the war theatre). I believe it's available for purchase as a .pdf and it's just darn cool.
 

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