AC 56 at level 6! You too can do it!

[Moonstone Spider]

I agree, please show more of what the bonuses are. Your post just says "spells/abilities/feats" but I can't tell how that's supposed to give us useful information. Pretty much everything in DnD is a mix of those plus equipment. Here's how I can see getting a high AC:
Full Plate (+8)
Tower Shield (+4)
Enhancement bonus of +2 to each (+4)
Dex Modifier +1
Barkskin spell (+2 at level 6)
Dodge (+1)
Full Defense + Combat Expertise (+5)

That gives a total of 35 at the cost of never being able to attack worth a hill of beans. You could Mithril the armor and shield and go Cat's Grace for another +2 but the cost of Mithril would be prohibitive at level 6. I'm probably missing a few things but are there really 30 more points of AC to add? What more bonuses do you have up your sleeve moritheil?
Barkskin

 

[Crothian]

You seem to be misunderstanding - I've already shown it. It's in the other thread.

Showing what the AC is through the different bonuses is not showing the build.

 

[moritheil]

I agree, please show more of what the bonuses are. Your post just says "spells/abilities/feats" but I can't tell how that's supposed to give us useful information. Pretty much everything in DnD is a mix of those plus equipment. Here's how I can see getting a high AC:
Full Plate (+8)
Tower Shield (+4)
Enhancement bonus of +2 to each (+4)
Dex Modifier +1
Barkskin spell (+2 at level 6)
Dodge (+1)
Full Defense + Combat Expertise (+5)

That gives a total of 35 at the cost of never being able to attack worth a hill of beans. You could Mithril the armor and shield and go Cat's Grace for another +2 but the cost of Mithril would be prohibitive at level 6. I'm probably missing a few things but are there really 30 more points of AC to add? What more bonuses do you have up your sleeve moritheil?
Barkskin

Okay, this request shows effort and is more to my liking.

You missed my statement in the other thread, but the way to powergame is not to go with conventional methods. It makes sense: those are the ways WOTC has put the most effort into balancing, and consequently they are of little use if one wants to get anything really high.

Armor: no one has broken down the force armor bonus. There are only two well-known spells for getting force armor: mage armor and greater mage armor. Mage armor is AC 4, and I have AC 6 force armor listed, so by simple process of elimination it must be the other one. I've already said that 22 natural armor is from barkskin (2) and alter self, so by process of elimination the rest (20) belongs to alter self. Yes, there is an alter self form with 5 or less HD that gives 20 natural AC. It's actually very commonly known, and I had originally assumed that that would be the bonus everyone would identify instantly.

You're absolutely right to say that there's no way that this character can do anything but tank. I admitted as much earlier and stated that I would have cut the AC stacking at 30 to devote more resources to being useful in other ways.

 

[Umbran]

Folks, let's not get a furor going here, please.

I will point out that the existence of one build that is particularly powerful in this regard does not to me seem to refute the original argument, which seems to me to be more about general behavior of the ruleset.

 

[moritheil]

Showing what the AC is through the different bonuses is not showing the build.

But it is not different from showing that the build is plausible.

As I said at the time, I just put those together in my head without even having the books at hand. I haven't done the elaborate contortions of fitting a rigorous build together. Heck, only two of the feats are determined (you must have Otherworldly and Combat Expertise.)

There is one error that I caught reviewing it - dodge bonus should be 3, not 2. This is why I titled this thread AC 56 instead of AC 57. (I wonder if anyone recognizes the source of the error.)

 

[Bacris]

But you're not, in fact, showing that the build is possible.

You're saying the build is possible, but not proving it.

Now, as to whether it is or is not possible, I honestly don't care, as I've seen Otto's builds on the highest AC record, so high AC really doesn't mean much to me, but claiming it can be done at 6th level and then refusing to give out the specifics because of some elitist mentality typically means that you can't actually validate what you're saying. While I'm not saying that's what's happening here, I can see why folks would be leary of believing you when you're not willing to prove it.

Sort of like an elementary school child claiming he can beat anyone at a foot race and then when he's challenged, him saying "I don't need to prove anything, I know I can do it." It gives the impression of a whole lot of hot air.

 

[Umbran]

But it is not different from showing that the build is possible.

Until such time as you provide the details, it is different, because the audience does not accept at face value that you actually managed it without errors.

If you want to make an arguemnt to prove a point, the burden of proof is upon you, not upon the audience you wish to accept the point.

 

[Crothian]

But it is not different from showing that the build is plausible.

Actually, I think it is. You make claims that people should no what you are doing by seeing the answer. That is not the case. All you have is a list of bonuses and claim you can get them by 6th level all with one character.

 

[moritheil]

Folks, let's not get a furor going here, please.

I will point out that the existence of one build that is particularly powerful in this regard does not to me seem to refute the original argument, which seems to me to be more about general behavior of the ruleset.

Thanks for stopping by! Your assertion interests me. My reasoning is that if someone can do something advantageous, you should expect it to be done in a competitive setting. For example, no one compares their builds vs. a commoner 20 with all feats in Toughness, right? It is only by comparing optimized builds with optimized builds that one achieves any understanding of what is possible. Furthermore, the rules are generally no different when you play the game than when I play the game. So if I build something with 56 AC, logic dictates that anyone can copy that and have 56 AC (especially in point buy games where you are sure of your stats.)

I was originally hoping that someone would respond with a high to-hit build, but alas, no one has.

 

[moritheil]

You make claims that people should no what you are doing by seeing the answer.

Correct. This is because there are only so many things that are good enough to make it into a powergaming build. The list is quite limited. Wasn't there a thread recently that pointed out that only about 1/4 of sorc/wiz spells generally see use? The rest are just not above average spells and thus may as well not exist where powergamers are concerned.

All you have is a list of bonuses and claim you can get them by 6th level all with one character.

No, I claim that it should be possible. Subtly but importantly different.