Acid ignores hardness?

[Particle_Man]

Could someone please point out where (if anywhere) it says that acid ignores hardness? I'd swear I read that it does, but can't find the rule. Am I simply wrong?

 

[dcollins]

I don't think that's correct. Here's the relevant quote from the SRD:

Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

The point is that acid (and sonics) do 100% damage to objects, not 50% or 25% as for other types of energy. However, this is all prior to applying hardness, which still occurs for all types of energy.

Nowhere does it say that any energy ignores hardness. (From 3.0 to 3.5, acid was moved into the "full damage" category with sonics, and this paragraph was re-organized, but other than that no effective change was made.)

 

[Daedrova]

When I first read this I thought I might have seen that same thing somewhere, but I was unable to find this specifically. As pointed out above, the PH (pg 165) also states that both sonic and acid effects do full damage to objects, but nothing about those energy types ignoring hardness.

However, where you and I both might have seen this is the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Psions manifesting energy damage based powers can choose from four types of energy (cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) and those powers using sonic energy ignore object hardness.

 

[Silveras]

I don't think that's correct. Here's the relevant quote from the SRD:

Energy Attacks: Acid and sonic attacks deal damage to most objects just as they do to creatures; roll damage and apply it normally after a successful hit. Electricity and fire attacks deal half damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the hardness. Cold attacks deal one-quarter damage to most objects; divide the damage dealt by 4 before applying the hardness.

The point is that acid (and sonics) do 100% damage to objects, not 50% or 25% as for other types of energy. However, this is all prior to applying hardness, which still occurs for all types of energy.

Nowhere does it say that any energy ignores hardness. (From 3.0 to 3.5, acid was moved into the "full damage" category with sonics, and this paragraph was re-organized, but other than that no effective change was made.)

Of course an effective change was made. Acid and Sonic were put together, in a section where they do full damage to objects just as to creatures. You do not subtract hardness from damage to creatures, either, except for Constructs in some cases. Notice that Electricity and Fire, and then Cold, are broken into two separate sections, and both specifically mention subtracting hardness. If hardness applied to Acid and Sonic attacks, the relevant passage would have said "Apply full damage before subtracting hardness."

 

[Knight Otu]

If hardness applied to Acid and Sonic attacks, the relevant passage would have said "Apply full damage before subtracting hardness."

Unless, of course, it was said earlier in the relevant section:

Hardness: Each object has hardness—a number that represents how well it resists damage. Whenever an object takes damage, subtract its hardness from the damage. Only damage in excess of its hardness is deducted from the object’s hit points (see Table: Common Armor, Weapon, and Shield Hardness and Hit Points; Table: Substance Hardness and Hit Points; and Table: Object Hardness and Hit Points).

This way, sonic and acid would have to say that they ignore hardness, similar to adamantine.

 

[Particle_Man]

For what it is worth, the 10/29 FAQ says that acid and sonic and force effects ignore hardness. Thanks for all your replies.

 

[dcollins]

Hmmm, any bets that there's another FAQ entry that gets retracted at some point?

 

[Silveras]

Q

Hmmm, any bets that there's another FAQ entry that gets retracted at some point?

I don't know... if that was one of the new questions, it is unlikely. Andy Collins' answers (since he started writing the Sage Advice column/FAQ) have not stirred up as much controversy as Skip Williams' answers did on occasion. Of course, AC has not been doing it for very long, so it may just be a matter of time.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hmmm, any bets that there's another FAQ entry that gets retracted at some point?

Why, because it makes perfect sense that a flask of acid capable of killing a peasant cannot damage stone or iron, and will usually not damage wood?

 

[Particle_Man]

I wonder what the flask is made of, if the acid ignores hardness.