Acid Variant of Burning Hands

[Olaf the Stout]

One of my players wants to have an acid variant of Burning Hands.

I have thought of a couple of options. What does everyone think of this version?

Acid Splash
Evocation [Acid]
Level: Fire 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A cone of acid splashes out from your fingertips. Any creature in the area of the acid takes 1d4 points of acid damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). On a failed Reflex save they must make a second Reflex save or be blinded for 1 round.

The other variation I thought of was that the target suffered an extra 1 point of damage in the following round if it failed a Reflex save (instead of being blinded).

Thoughts? Does anyone have any suggestions for other possible secondary effects?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Nifft]

It should deal less damage, and it should NOT have any secondary effect!

But keep in mind that, at 3rd level, the Cone of Acid would be better than Acid Arrow, which is a 2nd level spell, even without any secondary effect. Way too strong.

Now, I would allow this:

Mephitic Spray
Conjuration (Creation) [Acid]
Sor/Wiz 1
Area: 15 ft. cone
SR: Nope
Save: Fort partial

You spray the area with a sickening acidic liquid which sears flesh and chokes breathing.

Those in the area take 1d4 Acid damage and are sickened for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fort save halves the damage and negates the sickness.

At 4th level the acid damage increases to 2d4, and at 9th level the damage increases to 3d4.



That's still a SUPER powerful spell -- on the level of Magic Missile -- but it does not overshadow any 2nd or 3rd level spells, so I think it's okay.

-- N

 

[Graf]

Hmm.
Why are you trying to amp the power level?
Just make it Acid instead of fire damage and keep the spell the same.

If you want to make it different (a reasonable thing to do) you have to take something away. One way to mimic acid effects would be do allow it to do continuing damage... say 1d2 and then another 1d2 the next round. It's slower but the average damage output is similar and it (mildy) interferes with spellcasting.

Blindness is a bit powerful/weird it's basically like applying a 50% miss change but creates lots of additional issues (i.e. it's hard to explain why the creature can move around), totally blocks spellcasting, etc.

There is a reason the blindness spell isn't first level.
(And that the darkness spell is no longer "pitch darkness" but is just an area of shadow).

 

[Olaf the Stout]

What do you think about this cold-based version of Burning Hands? And while the acid version of burning hands may do more damage than Acid Arrow, the range is basically melee compared to long for Acid arrow. Whether you think that make much difference is a matter of opinion.

Freezing Hands
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Fire 1, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A thin sheet of freezing ice shoots from the caster's outspread fingertips. The caster must hold his hands with his thumbs touching and his fingers spread. The sheet of ice is about as thick as the caster's thumbs. Any creature in the area of the ices takes 1d4 points of cold damage per caster level (maximum 5d4). Anyone exposed flames are extinguished.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Hmm.
Why are you trying to amp the power level?
Just make it Acid instead of fire damage and keep the spell the same.

If you want to make it different (a reasonable thing to do) you have to take something away. One way to mimic acid effects would be do allow it to do continuing damage... say 1d2 and then another 1d2 the next round. It's slower but the average damage output is similar and it (mildy) interferes with spellcasting.

Blindness is a bit powerful/weird it's basically like applying a 50% miss change but creates lots of additional issues (i.e. it's hard to explain why the creature can move around), totally blocks spellcasting, etc.

There is a reason the blindness spell isn't first level.
(And that the darkness spell is no longer "pitch darkness" but is just an area of shadow).

I'm not really trying to amp the power level. I'm trying to keep the spell the same as the fire version. The only thing is that the fire version lights any flammable materials. That doesn't really make sense for acid so I'm trying to come up with a similar effect that makes sense for acid.

I take it that the general consensus (of those that have replied to this thread! ) is that acid-type damage is much more powerful that fire-type damage?

Olaf the Stout

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I am not too sure why its not something like:

Elemental Blast
Evocation [Element]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 15 ft.
Area: Cone-shaped burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

A spray of the chosen element shoots from the caster's outspread fingertips. The caster must hold his hands with his thumbs touching and his fingers spread. All creatures and objects within the area take 1d4 points of damage per caster level (maximum 5D4). Side effects based on the type of element are as follows:
- Fire, Unattended flammables ignite. A character may extinquish these flames with a full round action. Burning items take 1d4 points of damage each turn.
- Ice, the area becomes slick and is treated as difficult terrain for one minute. A character may destroy the ice glazing with a full round action
- Acid, Objects within the area become covered with acidic goo and take 1 point of damage per turn for 1d4+1 turns. A character can scrape off the acidic goo with a full round action.
- Lightning, creatures who fail the REF save are Dazzled for 1D4+1 rounds {-1 to attacks, Search and Spot checks}


etc...

But of course, I am a fan of Elements of Magic.. in which all these are simple Evoke spells

 

[Nifft]

Acid damage is more powerful for three reasons:

1/ Fire-based critters are far more common than Acid-immune critters.
2/ Acid damages objects (like Sonic damage).
3/ Acid is less common than Fire, and therefore counter-measures are less frequent.

That last one you can change for your campaign, but it will take some effort.

Acid spells are more powerful for yet another reason:

4/ Acid spells are typically of school Conjuration (Creation), and thus do not allow spell resistance. You can harm a Golem with acid arrow, you cannot harm a Golem with scorching ray.

The XPH (and SRD Psionics section) does a fantastic job putting the various energy types in their proper place. Acid is special -- the "no SR" thing is a big deal.

You can change this unwritten rule if your setting demands it, but think hard about the implications.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Acid damage is more powerful for three reasons:

1/ Fire-based critters are far more common than Acid-immune critters.
2/ Acid damages objects (like Sonic damage).
3/ Acid is less common than Fire, and therefore counter-measures are less frequent.

That last one you can change for your campaign, but it will take some effort.

Acid spells are more powerful for yet another reason:

4/ Acid spells are typically of school Conjuration (Creation), and thus do not allow spell resistance. You can harm a Golem with acid arrow, you cannot harm a Golem with scorching ray.

The XPH (and SRD Psionics section) does a fantastic job putting the various energy types in their proper place. Acid is special -- the "no SR" thing is a big deal.

You can change this unwritten rule if your setting demands it, but think hard about the implications.

Cheers, -- N

Fair enough Nifft. I didn't realise that acid ignored spell resistance. What do you think about the cold-based version of Burning Hands then? Is that a reasonable 1st level spell? I would think that the amount of creatures that are immune or resistant to cold-based damage would only be slightly less than the amount that are immune or resistant to fire-based damage.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Graf]

The proposed cold version looks fine to me.
Didn’t mean to jump on you about the power level thing.

Extinguishing fires is far more similar (is that proper English?) in power level of the secondary effect in burning hands.

 

[the Jester]

I'm generally against making variants of an existing spell just by changing the energy type. It's redundant. I dislike the psionic energy powers because, essentially, this is what they do. I strongly believe that this increase in versatility results in a significant increase in power (in the case of psionics, it's only arguably balanced by virtue of the need to spend more pps to do more damage).

Certainly, you shouldn't make a 1st-level spell more powerful than another 1st level spell. I would insist on a lower-powered variant rather than a higher-powered variant (though truth to tell, I'd be unlikely to allow such a variant at all!)