Acrobatic Strike Confusion

[Bizorro]

Hey there, I'm a 4th level human Rogue and I'm thinking about retraining one of my At-Wills for Acrobatic Strike in Martial Power 2. I'm confused by the wording that says that on a hit, you can shift before or after the attack.

Shifting after the attack makes perfect sense, but how does shifting before it work. Do they mean you shift after the successful attack roll, but before you deal damage? Or is the shift retroactive? Here's a scenario: Acrobatic Strike is a melee power, but if I'm one square away and I want to attack an enemy, can I use Acrobatic Strike against them, and then if I succeed, shift into their space and attack them? Or do I have to be in range to begin with? If so, what's the difference between shifting before the attack and shifting after it?

Can you give me some examples of when you would use Acrobatic Strike to shift before an attack?

 

[Aulirophile]

RAI and RAW are probably at odd on this one. How to Read a Power (PHB 1/2/3) says you do the things in order. So if an Effect is listed after the hit and attack line, well, that is when you do it. But says before or after. RAI you could shift into flanking or etc., or even away, since again, the Effect lines comes after the successful attack and damage.

In other words, by RAW, the power doesn't make a ton of sense. There really isn't a way of reconciling this, unfortunately. Believe it or not there are some powers (and feats) that, by RAW, don't even work at all. So either you ignore those powers, or try and establish a dialogue with your DM about the intent of such powers. Really your only options.

Assuming the text creates a specific exception all it's own, you could shift before the attack, into range of the target, and then make the attack, if you started 1 square away. This follows the procedure for attacks on PHB 269. You'd shift then make the attack roll, assuming this is a legitimate interpretation. There are conflicting rules at work, as stated.

 

[Oldtimer]

Hey there, I'm a 4th level human Rogue and I'm thinking about retraining one of my At-Wills for Acrobatic Strike in Martial Power 2. I'm confused by the wording that says that on a hit, you can shift before or after the attack.

No, it doesn't. The shifting is an effect, so you don't need to hit first.

Here's a scenario: Acrobatic Strike is a melee power, but if I'm one square away and I want to attack an enemy, can I use Acrobatic Strike against them, and then if I succeed, shift into their space and attack them?

You start one square away and use Acrobatic Strike to first shift into melee range and then roll the attack.

Or, you could start in melee and use Acrobatic Strike first attack the enemy and then shift away.

If so, what's the difference between shifting before the attack and shifting after it?

Move, then attack vs. Attack, then move.

 

[the_amnesiac]

An Effect from a power is only contingent on hitting if
A) the effect is part of the Hit line
Hit: 1[W] and you shift two squares.

B) the effect line is indented
Hit: 1[W]
__Secondary attack: Str. vs. AC
__Hit: 2[W] and the target gets a rash.

C) The effect specifically says it requires you to hit
Hit: 1[W]
Effect: If you hit with this attack, you get a fluffy bunny.


Remember, specific beats general. In general, the Effect takes place after the attack, but Acrobatic Strike specifically says you can shift before or after the attack.

 

[Bizorro]

Thanks everyone. Obviously I'm most pleased with the idea that most Effects occur regardless of a successful attack roll. That would make the power work as I expected. Just to be safe, can you point me to a reference in the PHB or other material that spells this out?

 

[Bizorro]

Actually, I guess this would pretty much do it:

"Many powers produce effects that take place regard-
less of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other
powers have effects that occur without an attack roll
being required." (PHB p.59)

So sometimes there's an associated attack roll and sometimes there isn't, but either way the Effect will always work.

 

[Zaphling]

Acrobatics Strike not only describe the Rogue escaping from a grapple. It can also be imagine he tumbles sidewards or any direction and strikes, hence the shift before attacking part of the power.

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually, I guess this would pretty much do it:

"Many powers produce effects that take place regard-
less of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other
powers have effects that occur without an attack roll
being required." (PHB p.59)

So sometimes there's an associated attack roll and sometimes there isn't, but either way the Effect will always work.

It also helps if you make a note that the effect of a power is not restricted to the Effect: line of the power.

Effects are anything a power does... including the attack itself.