D&D 5E Actions and When to Enter Initiative

[Man in the Funny Hat]

I think it's safe to say that your house rules or rulings on readying etc seem to be getting you what you seek but are as you say solutions to issues from previous editions.

We were asked how we handle it.

None of that is outside the 5e rules - so I dont see them as "the problem" in the OP example.

But that's me.

I'm not angry about this, but my answer is my answer. It wasn't intended to be reflective of everyone else's experiences and enforced as universal Truth or else I'd have told everyone directly to do it MY way or the highway, and it stands as written.

 

[5ekyu]

@Man in the Funny Hat @Lanefan @everyone-else-who-thinks-there-is-a-problem-in-need-of-a-solution-here ---

"Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of an encounter. If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn in the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. A member of a group can be surprised even if other members can't." (PHB 189)

Can you explain why you think this doesn't provide you with the necessary tool for resolving "got the drop on 'em" situations?

I would say that this can solve a lot of situations but only for a dub-set - the cases where no threat is noticed.

For person being guarded in room, two groups on opposite sides of a negotiation, each worried the other might try something etc - this seems much more nebulous.

The needle being threaded is how to have a system where it's not "first shout goes first" and also not "ambusher goes last".

You may also hit some issues even with surprise, if say features key off targets not having "taken a turn" for example.

However, that said, I think the "problem" at its core for some is the idea that player declaration means immediate character action. That yo me is much more a case of table rule than system rule.

 

[5ekyu]

We were asked how we handle it.
I'm not angry about this, but my answer is my answer. It wasn't intended to be reflective of everyone else's experiences and enforced as universal Truth or else I'd have told everyone directly to do it MY way or the highway, and it stands as written.

Ok so I think perhaps I was unclear.

My comment on your ready house rules that you said were put in place to fix abuses in previous games of yours using previous editions were about that - not about a broader more general topic. Certainly not a challenge to you having your own post.

So, for example, your house rule that you cannot both ready and move, that doesnt seem to apply to either of the OP cases that, as you point out, you were asked "how you would handle it".

That wasnt an attack, not a challenge to your right to post your answer, just an observation about your answer and how it relates to the examples put forth by the OP and asked about.

 

[Connorsrpg]

That isn't how the game is designed.

Note, I'm not saying you can't play that way, I just think it's bad advice.

Everyone wants to be the one to act first. Initiative helps to be cinematic and have dramatic and tension filled scenes. In my fantasy/action movies I like to imagine that both sides of a conflict want the upper hand. That tension is great, knowing the outcome ahead of time deflates that.

It's not fun to be attacked and not be able to do anything about it. Acting outside of combat is essentially super surprise (as the enemy doesn't even get a chance to use a reaction). PCs and other creatures just shouldn't be surprised if they are aware of their enemies.

I don't think I would want to play at a table where the first person to shout gets to do the thing.

To put it another way -

Greedo declared his action first but Han won initiative.

Yeah, I probably worded what I do poorly. Pretty much surprise situations. But if not in combat until the point someone does something often occurs.

One thing I don't like watching some DMs online is the rush to roll initiative when nothing has actually happened to indicate this has to be a combat encounter. THEN it seems to automatically become a combat encounter.

I just keep asking who wants to do what. When there is a conflict or several creatures wanting to act, then I go for initiative... but this sounds worse than what I do in game too.

I know what I mean. But you maybe right. Perhaps poorly worded advice. I understand the OP asking about this though, b/c DMs handle it differently.

I might say the Solo passed is Perception check, so he was not surprised and then beat Greedo (and that all depends upon which movie you watch too That scene was changed to show Greedo shooting first and missing too wasn't it? Perhaps Solo won even with disadvantage. Very hard to demonstrate with a movie eg as the dice can do anything here. ).