AD&D First Edition inferior?

[ColonelHardisson]

Colonel, I recently bought Stratego Legends for $25.00, which is the price tag that should be on D&D ($20 book and $5 dice).

To me, the expense of 3E is intertwined with the complexity of the game. Why the devil should the CORE RULE consist of 800 or so pages? That's just asinine. I can think of all kinds of people who would consider buying D&D and giving it a try if it was inexpensive and easy to learn. The price tag and page count turns many potential buyers away. That's something I wish WotC would realize.

For me, I would like to be able to "get with the program" and play 3E. I want to speak the same "RPG language" as the majority of current gamers. A 3E Lite would certainly have a serious chance to get my money and my time. Why the hell not a Lite version? Moldvay did it 21 years ago. Surely WotC could figure out how to strip down their core rules into a 128-page game that still covers levels up to 20.

P. S. If any anger comes through this post, it's not directed at you, Colonel. It's directed at WotC.

I know you're not blasting me. I understand what you're saying, but consider: TSR ran two concurrent D&D lines - AD&D and the race=class/no good or evil alignment D&D, which was simpler - and ended up fragmenting their customer base.

Now, I know a "D&D Lite" would be a good thing, but WotC could end up in the same boat as TSR eventually if they started fragmenting the customer base again.

The Core Rules probably could be stripped down. A lot of the page count you're decrying consists of monsters and DM advice, not actual rules. So, sure, they could whittle it down to the bare bones. Why don't they? I don't know. I'm sure there are fiscally rational reasons for them not to, but I don't know enough to even begin to guess at them.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I think you mean: I also walked to school barefoot, uphill both ways through 6 feet of snow and if you were very lucky you'd have some rags for clothing

My dad seriously claims he had to walk 2 miles uphill through the snow just to get to the bus stop.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

when i bought them i paid $10 for the PHB and MM. i paid $12 for the DMG.

i paid $4.50 for G1

i paid $10 for the first printing of the DDG.

i paid $5 for a boxed set of Grenadier minis.

i paid etc...

i also walked to school 5 miles barefoot, uphill thru 4 ft of snow after doing all my chores.

Yeah, what stinks is that when I bought them, the prices had just gone up.

 

[Piratecat]

You have no ability to carry on a discussion. You have four tools at your disposal: capital letters, smilies, exclamation marks and senseless text. You really don't have anything of value to add.

Rob, please stop the personal insults. This really isn't the place to get into a shouting match with someone, just because you disagree with them. Yes, even if they are infuriating you, and even if your friendly neighborhood Admin thinks they're wrong, too.

Of course, this goes for everyone else as well.

If this is somehow a problem, please feel free to email me.

 

[diaglo]

Indeed, using that system, why don't merchants and bankers all have 359 hit points and the ability to slay red dragons in their sleep?

actually Gene did what I wanted him to do.

i don't have my books with me at work. but i figured with enough goading he would post the text.

the point with earning experience points back then is still the same now.

the back of the 1ed DMG also had a list for typical xps for any given monster as well as the initial ThAC0 reference .

and you can answer the question using the 3ed rules. just like Gene does with 1ed. the object is to overcome the obstacles.

trial and error or magic to determine an items use.

solve the puzzle.

diplomatically stop the war.

discover who done it.

etc...

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

Calling someone a troll is such a lame "escape hatch" on messageboards. Sitting face to face does someone call you a troll for showing them an excerpt from a book?

As for the back and forth with the "you're wrong because I don't understand you" that has got as much maturity as a cocktail bar full of sippy juices.

Picking at the writing style on a messageboard is petty as well. It only invalidates your position.

Is there messageboard terms for any of this?

How about Chicken Little (for the "he's a troll" response), Playing Dead (the non-comprehension response) and Grammatical Countermeasures (for the your writing sucks response)?

 

[RobNJ]

You should try to keep cool, Rob. I'm pretty sure that GENEWEIGEL is doing this on purpose, to get you angry. Trolling, you know.

Thanks, sincerely, for the advice. I'm not really upset, I just want to point out the essential problem here is that some people are trying to have a discussion and others are merely posting senseless drivel.

And I don't say that because Gene has opinions that differ from mine, but because he seems completely inable to make a coherent point in written language.

 

[RobNJ]

Rob, please stop the personal insults. This really isn't the place to get into a shouting match with someone, just because you disagree with them.

It's genuinely not about disagreeing with him, it's about the fact that he completely fails to express himself in a clear manner. Most of what he says doesn't make any sense, not because it doesn't agree with my opinion, but because it's not clearly written.

I'm frustrated by a lack of clear writing, not because someone refuses to agree with me. And I'm not sure what to do about that except point out that discussion with him is impossible because he can't make a single clear point.

Imagine you go to a store customer service department to complain that the pants they sold you had a rip in them, and they start talking about how weasels like to wear shoes.

That's roughly what this conversation is like.

 

[GENEWEIGEL]

Yes, even if they are infuriating you, and even if your friendly neighborhood Admin thinks they're wrong, too.

This forum is done.

I'll be at be Dragonsfoot if anyone wants to continue this where I won't be minimalized without cause by the administrators.

 

[RobNJ]

As for the back and forth with the "you're wrong because I don't understand you" that has got as much maturity as a cocktail bar full of sippy juices.

It's not like I don't understand you because you're bringing in esoteric points made by Zarathustrian sages. It's because you are not expressing yourself clearly.

Picking at the writing style on a messageboard is petty as well. It only invalidates your position.

I'm not complaining about your spelling, or how you use commas, but it's extremely frustrating to try to make sense out of the words of someone who is apparently not trying himself to make sense. The only way we have of talking to one another here is with the content of our words. I tried several times to get you to explain your nonsequetors, to frequent failure. The one time I got you to explain yourself, it was some baroque verbal trap, which only amps up the frustration further.

I think complaining that you refuse to speak the language is a valid complaint. It is not with your spelling that I take issue, but with your points (or, your points by extension, since at its root my problem is with your inability to make a clear point in the first place).