AD&D 1E AD&D Retroclone Design Goals

[DammitVictor]

Knights & Knaves and the AD&D community are not places I'm welcome, but I am happy to hear OSRIC is getting a new edition. Personally and I know the AD&D gang wants to hear nothing I have to say I think it could benefit from two different approaches that might be hard to reconcile.

I didn't think that a thread about a project In Progress would be an appropriate place for my reply-- but I wanted to respond to this from the perspective of an AD&D and retroclone fan. And an AD&D fan from whom the "AD&D gang" doesn't particularly want to hear much, either.

1st - Simply streamlining and cleaning up the 1980's language and layout issues of AD&D and moving the disparate parts together from the various books ... even when they don't make sense. Example: bring the various lb and coin weight approaches to encumbrance together - the specific encumbrance by item and the generalized system right next to each other. Let the reader figure out how to use it best for their table, but present it all side by side. Let's call this the "OSE" format

2nd - Really build on the work of AD&D auteurs like Anthony Huso/Blue Bard and make a "best practices AD&D" from Gygax's creative slurry. Call this the "Errant" version.

I have... a lot of things I want to see in an "AD&D clone" that make it... less of an AD&D clone... and keep me from seriously working on it. I think the "OSE" organizational approach is important. But in terms of a pure AD&D clone, I think one thing I would like to see is Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures incorporated and integrated into the core rules and... some limited inclusions from 2e, mostly from PHBR05 (psionics) and 10 (humanoids).

Bonus Option ... guaranteed to provoke spitting and hissing among AD&D obsessives. Fix the system however, but spend the time lavishing love and creativity on what really makes AD&D special ... all the implied setting. The items, the random encounters, the spells and monsters. Just twist everything a bit. Put it into a slightly new setting. Not much, but maybe a bit more Dunsany or a stronger doom and darkness vibe. Heck go with the apparent AD&D end game (it's not domains) and make it a world of cosmic struggle where adventure consists of fighting against otherworldly incursion, and ultimately incurring into those other planes in revenge.

Good fit for everything I'm suggesting above, actually.

 

[Greyknife Ike]

I have... a lot of things I want to see in an "AD&D clone" that make it... less of an AD&D clone... and keep me from seriously working on it. I think the "OSE" organizational approach is important. But in terms of a pure AD&D clone, I think one thing I would like to see is Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures incorporated and integrated into the core rules and... some limited inclusions from 2e

This sounds like you want to do what current OSE (if you buy basic &advance or the upcoming revised release) is to the b/x & 1e, in that you'd end up with more of a thing that's a 1.x more than a straight 1e clone. Which hey I'd go for if you think there's a niche for it . The specific flavor you're going for of your take on 1e+UA+OA+ bits of 2e can make something uniquely different as it sounds like the setting that'd result naturally would be a very dukes vs shoguns type landscape that'd be unique for a default setting even if you don't really expand on it outside of making it all one uniform and I'd be interested in at least looking at it.

 

[jonesymat]

I have... a lot of things I want to see in an "AD&D clone" that make it... less of an AD&D clone... and keep me from seriously working on it.

Well there is space for the two approaches. This already exists in some way. Hyperborea is an example of the second approach (but not that radical like your example). But I don't know if there is let's say a market for all the possible AD&D-like configurations. I don't know if a combination of all the rules of AD&D 1e supplements and 2e supplements would be feasible to be an elegant and concise work like OSE

 

[DammitVictor]

I've wanted to do it myself, but I never landed it. (I've tried.) I'm doing something similar now, but it's too far removed from D&D to really appeal to the retroclone fandom.

 

[Belen]

I wish they’d do a 2e update with a full VTT.

 

[DammitVictor]

I don't know if a combination of all the rules of AD&D 1e supplements and 2e supplements would be feasible to be an elegant and concise work like OSE

Certainly not the 2e supplements. I'm speaking in the context of an AD&D 1e clone, like OSRIC, where the supplemental classes come from all of two books, unless you wanted to nick some Best of Dragon material. The only 2e supplemental material I'd want to include in a 1e clone would be a quick rundown of humanoids as (optional) playables and the psionicist class.

Basically, if I'd been talking about 2e... I'd probably stick to the PHB classes and only add at most the monk and assassin and the psionicist and include a handful of Kits in the core rules to differentiate between the Cavalier, the Kensei, and the Barbarian. Given my druthers, I'd do a partial Player's Option clone and assign the "ki" class features to the standard classes.

 

[jonesymat]

Certainly not the 2e supplements. I'm speaking in the context of an AD&D 1e clone, like OSRIC, where the supplemental classes come from all of two books, unless you wanted to nick some Best of Dragon material. The only 2e supplemental material I'd want to include in a 1e clone would be a quick rundown of humanoids as (optional) playables and the psionicist class.

Basically, if I'd been talking about 2e... I'd probably stick to the PHB classes and only add at most the monk and assassin and the psionicist and include a handful of Kits in the core rules to differentiate between the Cavalier, the Kensei, and the Barbarian. Given my druthers, I'd do a partial Player's Option clone and assign the "ki" class features to the standard classes.

I think to avoid a clone with a lot of bloat in the core book, maybe an supplement for OSRIC with these classes can be a good idea, like the Unearthed Arcana for OSRIC