D&D 1E AD&D two weapon fighting

[Mannahnin]

I find the OD&D elven switching rules hard to parse. Switching from one to another on a day seems to make sense on its own, choose to be a fighter on one day and be a fighter and not a magic-user that day, or choose to be a magic-user that day and not a fighter, but then that seems contradicted by the next line of gaining both benefits including specifically wearing armor and casting spells which seems to be at the same time. The best I can come up with is that you can do both classes' stuff at any time but only gain experience and levels in one class on any one adventuring day. Would HD stack? Would they start out single class, day two switch and gain a new HD and class features for being 1/1?

This is how we ran it in an OD&D campaign I played in last year. Each adventure I had to choose which class my xp would go toward.

I could use all of my abilities but not cast spells while wearing nonmagical armor. I rolled hit dice separately each time I gained a level, but only changed my HP if the new total was higher. I made it to 3rd/3rd, IIRC, before the DM had to put the game on hiatus, and hadn't found magic armor yet. Usually on a given adventure where I has chosen M-U I would enter the dungeon unarmored but with a hireling carrying my plate in a pack, and once my spells were cast we'd hole up in a room and I'd spend a turn donning my armor.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

An interesting question if you go with the bard from fighter level 1 unified theory interpretation is whether they are limited by the bard armor, shield, and weapon restrictions (page 118 Bade Table 3) when they start as fighters, and can they use the non thief allowed bard weapons (scimitar, spear, bastard sword) and bard allowed magical chain armor when they are thieves.

An even better question is this-

Since the Bard uses a "scimiter" [sic], whereas Druids use a "scimitar," does that mean that Bards can use imaginary weapons?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

So, I did a little canvassing to find out what the typical "solution" was for the Bard and Half-Elf conundrum, and seeing as we are now somewhat far afield from attacks with two weapons, I thought I'd create a thread-starter with a poll and let people answer their own Rules question in the way that they want! I will edit this and add a link when I am done.

DONE!

D&D General - Rulings, not Rules: How Will You Solve the Bard / Half Elf Dilemma?

So another thread has gone by wherein we all marveled at the clarity and interoperability of the 1e Gygaxian Ruleset, each of us remarking, "Those rules are as clear as an unmuddied stream; verily, the rules are as easy to apply as soft butter on a hot griddle!" Unfortunately, we did manage to...

www.enworld.org

 

[James Gasik]

Admit it! You were the one who wrote into Sage Advice ...

In GODS, DEMI-GODS AND HEROES it says that a forty-plus level character is ridiculous. In our game we have two characters that are at one thousand-plus level. This happened in “Armageddon,” a conflict between the gods and the characters. Of course, the characters won. What do you think about that?

#Helldritchhumblebrag

Wow, and I thought Waldorf was egregious!

 

[James Gasik]

Back in the day, I had assumed 1e Bards didn't use the standard dual-class rules after reading this entry in the Grey Box;

If Storm were dual-classed, she'd never be able to use her Fighter abilities since she hadn't reached 8th level of Thief...at least, that's the logic I was using at the time.

EDIT: either that, or Storm somehow met the requirements for Bard in reverse, going from Thief to Fighter.

 

[James Gasik]

...hm, it seems I have commited an act of necromancy. Not sure how this thread popped up in my new posts...

 

[zenfr0g]

There's no getting around it. The 1st edition Bard stunk. End of Story. Most of the time, the campaign winding down just as you get to your first few bard levels.
You: "Yay! I can switch to first level Bard!"
Everyone else: "We going to start a new Top Secret campaign."
You: &^%#!

It's also amazing that no one mentioned the class that broke two weapon fighting. Rangers! Ah that sweet, sweet static damage bonus on every attack against giant class creates which included a lot of things one would normally not consider giants. Poor kolbolds and goblins. Nothing like heading into G1 as a 10th+ level ranger knowing you are going to eviscerate ever single thing in there. The only thing more disgusting was UA ranger with bow specialization if the DM was clueless enough to allow it.

 

[James Gasik]

It's funny, it took my gaming group awhile to realize how busted 2e Two Weapon Fighting was. When I found out later how it worked in 1e, I was stunned. Just imagining a high level Fighter with 18(00) Strength, double specialized in bastards swords, dual wielding sunblades (remember kids, it's also a short sword!) making 5/2 attacks per round with both weapons?

And two handed weapons were largely a joke as a result.

 

[Lanefan]

It's funny, it took my gaming group awhile to realize how busted 2e Two Weapon Fighting was. When I found out later how it worked in 1e, I was stunned. Just imagining a high level Fighter with 18(00) Strength, double specialized in bastards swords, dual wielding sunblades (remember kids, it's also a short sword!) making 5/2 attacks per round with both weapons?

We downgraded some of that. You only get your extra attacks on the primary hand, we never did double-spec., and if you can afford (and can find!) two sunblades you've done pretty damn well for yourself. You're also at minuses on your off-hand unless your Dex is stupendous, and minuses can make you fumble...

More importantly, the enemies are fighting back; and the choice between a second weapon or (at the kind of level where you're getting sunblades) a +3 or +4 shield is a big deal. Shields give 2 AC in our game (1e RAW only has them give 1, which isn't enough); so is that gain of extra damage output really worth the risk of knocking your AC back by 5 or 6 and making yourself that much more easily hittable?

Defense wins championships, or so I'm told; and it's true in D&D as well.

And two handed weapons were largely a joke as a result.

Yes, 2-handed weapons need some love.

 

[cbwjm]

It's funny, it took my gaming group awhile to realize how busted 2e Two Weapon Fighting was. When I found out later how it worked in 1e, I was stunned. Just imagining a high level Fighter with 18(00) Strength, double specialized in bastards swords, dual wielding sunblades (remember kids, it's also a short sword!) making 5/2 attacks per round with both weapons?

And two handed weapons were largely a joke as a result.

Did 1e allow any weapon to be in the off-hand?