Adamantite Bypassing DR?

[Zog]

While I agree this thread is about expire

I have to comment on the magical enchanting of adamantium.

Folks - Adamantiumi s *Non-Magical* I think we all agree on this. Thus, if you want to make an adamantium weapon flaming (or keen or vorpal or whatever), you still need to make it magical first! This means paying to make a +1 weapon. Note: you get no actually benefit from this! However, it still counts as a +2 weapon for hit and damage, and can now be further enchanted. However, if you want to make an adamantium weapon +3, you have to pay for it to be made +1, then +2, then +3. With no benefit from making it +1 or +2.

As for me, I like the idea of a simple item of adam. or even mithril being sufficient to hit magical critters. House rule or interpreation, thats how I like it, so that's how I'll play.

 

[Black Omega]

Monte Speaks

I asked the following question over at Monte Cook's website.

Adamantine gets a +2 enhancement bonus. Does this work to defeat DR has been a hot topic over on the EN World message board. I'm guessing no, but there have been good arguements on both sides. Has Monte said anything definitive on this?

Monte responded:

The intent of the rules originally was that it did not.

Upon careful re-consideration, I think it would be OK if it did.

This is about as official as we'll get.

 

[Kraedin]

you still need to make it magical first!

Why? Weapons and armor do not have to be magical to have special abilites. They just need to have an enhacement bonus of at least +1.

 

[kreynolds]

Why?

Because weapons and armor must have at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus in order to place magical enhancements upon them, such as Flaming (weapons) or Everbright (armor). Adamantine does not provide a magical enhancement bonus, but it does provide a natural enhancement bonus. If you want to make an adamantine weapon Flaming, it must first be enhanced into a +1 magical weapon. Being a +1 or +2 natural weapon doesn't cut it, just like a masterwork weapon doesn't cut it.

Weapons and armor do not have to be magical to have special abilites.

Oh yes they do. It's in the DMG.

They just need to have an enhacement bonus of at least +1.

Right. Though it must be a magical enhancement bonus, not a natural. Otherwise, you would be able to make a masterwork weapon into a flaming weapon, which you can't do.

 

[Kraedin]

PHB, pg. 114 Weapon, Masterwork: These well-made weapons add a +1 bonus to attack rolls. Prices for these items are given on Table 7-9 Special and Superior Items. A masterwork weapon's bonus to attack does not stack with an enhancment bonus to attack.

A masterwork weapon has an unnamed bonus to attack that does not stack with enhancment bonuses, not an enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 185 A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

The item must have an enhancment bonus, with no source specified. By the same logic that natural enhancement is excluded from this, one can also exclude magical enhancement bonuses, can you not?

DMG, pg. 188 Adamantine Battleaxe: This nonmagical axe is made out of adamantine, giving it a natural +2 enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 188 Adamantine Dagger: This nonmagical dagger is made out of adamantine, giving it a natural +1 enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 182 Adamantine Breastplate: This nonmagical breatsplate is made of adamantine, giving it a natural +2 enhancement bonus.

DMG, pg. 242 Adamantine: Found only in meteorites and the rarest of veins in magical area, this ultrahard metal adds to the quality of a weapon or suit of armor based on how much of the material is used. Thus, adamantine plate offers a greater increase in protection (as well as a higher cost) than adamantine chainmail, and an adamantine battleaxe offers a greater increase in offensive capability than an adamantine dagger. Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural enhancement bonus to attack and damage. Armor fashioned from adamantine has a natural enchancement bonus to AC. These bonuses do not stack with any other enhancement bonuses. Thus, an adamantine (+2) sword enchanted with a +5 enhancement bonus effectively has a +5 enhancement bonus. In an area where magic does not function, it still retains its natural +2 enhancement bonus. Weapons and armor fashioned from adamantine are treated as masterwork items with regard to creation times, but the masterwork quality does no affect the enhancment bonus of weapons or armor.

Now, if it was a "natural enhancement" bonus, it would be written as "+2 natural enhancement bonus", correct? However, it is not written that way. It's written as "natural +2 enhancement bonus". It is a +2 enhancement bonus that is natural to the item, not a bonus of the type natural enhancement.

What does this mean? It means that if a rule requires an item with an enhancment bonus, then an adamantine weapon fufills that requirement.

 

[Macbrea]

By the way, This is what I got as a response on an admantine question.

Hello,

We have recently gotten into a heated debate over the feat Sunder.

1st question:
A Pit Fiend has a DR 30/+3. The Pit Fiend gets sunder as a feat but only has natural weapons. Can it use its claws to sunder a magic weapon?

Yes.



2nd question:
Can a fighter with Admantine Bastard sword sunder a magical longsword +1?

Yes (you need a magical bonus to overcome DR, but not for sunder).




Skip Williams
RPG R&D

Not that this helps the discusssion on what is actually the rule. But it may be of some use here.

 

[Xarlen]

I posted the Sage's response about Adamantite and DR. I don't think it's going to help, Macbrea.

 

[Macbrea]

I didn't figure it would. As technically, a rules minded lawyer could easily argue the first ruling is wrong or a house rule. I would just view it as a house rule personally.

 

[Black Omega]

Well, if Monte himself giving his input doesn't help, nothing will.

 

[kreynolds]

What does this mean? It means that if a rule requires an item with an enhancment bonus, then an adamantine weapon fufills that requirement.

No. It means that you've made up your own rule. Adamantine has an enhancement bonus that is good enough to sunder another magical weapon, but it is not good enough to bypass SR, nor is it good enough to automatically qualify for enhancement unless it is made into a +1 weapon first.