Adding a Psion to an group

[Nail]

..maybe WotC is finally getting a hold of the balance beast they unleashed a while back in 3e.

Maybe.

The fundamental system of psionics (PPs) still doesn't mesh well with the core spell mechanic or the core spell-like ability mechanic. That's not something they can "fix".

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

And each has been Errata'd. So what's the problem? Errata solves all power issues with the psion!

Spoiler

Not.

Energy Missile is still a 7th-level power disguised as a 2nd-level power. They just fixed the obvious boiler plate error.

 

[Nail]

Energy Missile is still a 7th-level power disguised as a 2nd-level power. They just fixed the obvious boiler plate error.

I should use arrows (instead of just smileys) to highlight my spoiler tags, I suppose.

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Spoiler

Like this!

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[WarlockLord]

I've played a few telepaths. High will saves are annoying.

Don't forget you can always have "witch hunters" who go after characters with unusual power. This'll keep him spending enough pp to prevent him from being king of the hill.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I've played a few telepaths. High will saves are annoying.

Don't forget you can always have "witch hunters" who go after characters with unusual power. This'll keep him spending enough pp to prevent him from being king of the hill.

That's why a telepath doesnt' only use Telepathic powers. As for the latter, that has nothing to do with balance. It's silly and doesn't work anyway.

 

[Solarious]

Because Read toughts, Mind probe, Metamorphosis, Dominate, etc.. are more effective than Gather info, Bluff, Intimidate and Disguise..

In my original post, I don't complain that he's more effective at mind reading, I complain because he can play well so many roles that he outshine the rest of the party.

This is only because a Psion must devote his powers towards this particular bent, and for their specialization, cannot get the best powers of another discipline without spending precious, precious feats, at which point you get the power about two to three levels later than the psion of that discipline would have. Metamorphosis, for example, is an Egotist power, which means an Expanded Knowledge was used to get it. The best blasting powers are discipline-specific (Kinetisist), as are the flying powers, teleportation powers (both Nomad), anything that has to do with scrying (Clairvoyant Sense, the Clairaudience psionic equivilant is Seer restricted), Psionic-Summoning-Equivilants, and Creation/Fabrication powers (both Shaper).

Think about it. Psions are basicly forced to specialize. Wizards wouldn't stand for it, but Psions must endure the slings and arrows without complaint.

Remember that psi powers can be manifested easily without any visible/audible effects, another advantage vs the equivalent spells of the wizard.

Which makes up for a Psion's lack of autoscaling. A 10th level Wizard, when casting Fireball, gets 10d6. A 10th level Kinetisist (or another specialist Psion with Expanded Knowledge), when manifesting Energy Ball, must pay 10 power points for the same result, which is roughly the equivilant of a 5'th level spell/power. Granted, the DC also goes up to compensate, but the Wizard can now use those same resources and instead cast something like Cone of Cold, Cloudkill, or Wall of Force. No, wait, better yet: Empowered Fireball, which deals 10d6*1.5, or basicly 15d6.

It's because of how PP works, if the party need 5 "clairvoyance" in a row, the Wizard can't give them, but the Psion can.

It's best not to compare the Psion to a Wizard, but rather a Sorceror. A Sorceror would be able to spam Clairvoyance/Clairaudience if they took it as a spell, so why should you limit the Psion in the same way? They both have limited selection of powers/spells. And Sorcerors can sacrifice higher level slots if things get particularly desperate. And again, Clairvoyant Sense is Seer discipline-restricted, another feat blown off there.

I don't use complete psion, but to be honest he's not good to handle a mass of low cr foes. But he has a few basic powers that are quite effective (that Crystal shard thing that do untyped damage, and a energy based one that I don't remember).

And don't worry about d4 when you have Vigor at hand

So the only blasting powers our Telepath has are Crystal Shard and Energy Ray, hmn? The answer is less complicated than you make it out to be. First, larger groups of lower CR foes, which is less of a hassle than it is at lower levels, or more encounters spread out across the day. Second, give your group a mild sense of paranoia: there might be a sneak attack or an unexpected encounter comming in. Give your Telepath a reason to conserve PPs, and then justify that paranoia every now or then, or rather, punish the lack of conservation. A Psion's greatest weakness is their tendency to blow out their PPs at an alarming rate, and a Psion without PPs is more or less a Commoner with a Crossbow.

Vigor, for the record, is an inferior method of extending your lifespan or soaking up Overchannel damage, and will cost significant amounts of PPs that could be better used to either ensure you don't get hit, or to eliminate the threats to the puny amount of hp 'arcanists' are blessed with.

 

[marune]

This is only because a Psion must devote his powers towards this particular bent, and for their specialization, cannot get the best powers of another discipline without spending precious, precious feats, at which point you get the power about two to three levels later than the psion of that discipline would have. Metamorphosis, for example, is an Egotist power, which means an Expanded Knowledge was used to get it. The best blasting powers are discipline-specific (Kinetisist), as are the flying powers, teleportation powers (both Nomad), anything that has to do with scrying (Clairvoyant Sense, the Clairaudience psionic equivilant is Seer restricted), Psionic-Summoning-Equivilants, and Creation/Fabrication powers (both Shaper).

The psion I talk about took 3 Expanded Knowledge feats. (Clairvoyant Sense, Metamorphosis and.. I forgot the other)

Which makes up for a Psion's lack of autoscaling. A 10th level Wizard, when casting Fireball, gets 10d6. A 10th level Kinetisist (or another specialist Psion with Expanded Knowledge), when manifesting Energy Ball, must pay 10 power points for the same result, which is roughly the equivilant of a 5'th level spell/power. Granted, the DC also goes up to compensate, but the Wizard can now use those same resources and instead cast something like Cone of Cold, Cloudkill, or Wall of Force. No, wait, better yet: Empowered Fireball, which deals 10d6*1.5, or basicly 15d6.

The huge amount of PP (with a high Int) has an advantages over metamagics feats IHMO.

It's best not to compare the Psion to a Wizard, but rather a Sorceror. A Sorceror would be able to spam Clairvoyance/Clairaudience if they took it as a spell, so why should you limit the Psion in the same way? They both have limited selection of powers/spells. And Sorcerors can sacrifice higher level slots if things get particularly desperate. And again, Clairvoyant Sense is Seer discipline-restricted, another feat blown off there.

Sorcerer fill generaly a "nuker" role with combats spells that aren't that usefull outside of combat. It's why I talked about a wizard who generaly take the "utility" role in the party. Of course, one could make a "utility" sorcerer that with PHB spells only woun't be as effective as a psion of course.

So the only blasting powers our Telepath has are Crystal Shard and Energy Ray, hmn? The answer is less complicated than you make it out to be. First, larger groups of lower CR foes, which is less of a hassle than it is at lower levels, or more encounters spread out across the day. Second, give your group a mild sense of paranoia: there might be a sneak attack or an unexpected encounter comming in. Give your Telepath a reason to conserve PPs, and then justify that paranoia every now or then, or rather, punish the lack of conservation. A Psion's greatest weakness is their tendency to blow out their PPs at an alarming rate, and a Psion without PPs is more or less a Commoner with a Crossbow.

He has a blast power (will save) for thoses low-cr foes but like I said before, this is his weakness.

Vigor, for the record, is an inferior method of extending your lifespan or soaking up Overchannel damage, and will cost significant amounts of PPs that could be better used to either ensure you don't get hit, or to eliminate the threats to the puny amount of hp 'arcanists' are blessed with.

Without a proper invisibility spell, Vigor is a good buffer agaisn't dreaded sneak attacks..

 

[Solarious]

The psion I talk about took 3 Expanded Knowledge feats. (Clairvoyant Sense, Metamorphosis and.. I forgot the other)

Which is three less feats for metapsionics, other feats to make metapsionics viable, or Improved Initiative (important for any spellcaster/manifester), power penetration (also requires psionic focus), among other things. Three feats is a lot to use on getting more powers.

Speaking of which, is that energy power you mentioned Energy Missile rather than Energy Ray? It's a common choice for EK, for it's selective targeting.

The huge amount of PP (with a high Int) has an advantages over metamagics feats IHMO.

And they must use those PPs in order to keep up with traditional arcane autoscaling, or resort to using less powerful effects. A Sorceror or Wizard at level 10+ only needs to use a 3rd level spell to achieve 10d6, while a Psion must spend the equivilant of a 5th level spell slot for the same effect. A Psion's powers don't have caps on their maximum augments beside their manifester level, but they also must PAY for those augments, and they don't get free 'virtual' PPs like Wizards and Sorcerors do to get those powers up to snuff.

I can't stress enough how the autoscaling of magic more than balances against psionic's augments.

Besides which, a Psion's metapsionics involve expending psionic focus, which means you either have to waste a full round focusing for your next power, or take another feat which stops you from moving and 13 WIS, or take two feats which allows you to do tow metapsionics in a row before having to refocus. Regular metamagics win.

Sorcerer fill generaly a "nuker" role with combats spells that aren't that usefull outside of combat. It's why I talked about a wizard who generaly take the "utility" role in the party. Of course, one could make a "utility" sorcerer that with PHB spells only woun't be as effective as a psion of course.

Sorcerors don't neccessarily need to fill up all their slots with blasting powers to be effective as a blaster either. Only a few effective ones need apply, and some smattering of utility and buffs can round their spell selections up. A Wizard is unmatched in their ability to change their spell selection to fit any situation given time, but a Psion doesn't get the same option to do this, and it isn't entirely fair to compare the two, which is why it is more appropiate to compare a Psion with a Sorceror instead.

And once again, a Sorceror doesn't need to deny themselves the ability to choose Fireball or Fly when they want to be able to choose Polymorph as a spell.

He has a blast power (will save) for thoses low-cr foes but like I said before, this is his weakness.

Ah, Mind Thrust. Another single-target power: no use against multiple targets once more. Besides which, is inferior to Crystal Shard because Will doesn't reduce to half, it negates.

Without a proper invisibility spell, Vigor is a good buffer agaisn't dreaded sneak attacks..

True. Alternatively, manifest Touchsight instead and be instantly aware of anyone within 30' or more, negating the chances of a sneak attack. And if you get sandwitched between two enemies, you better have a power to save your bacon, or you are dead already anyways.