adding and taking away skills

[Afrodyte]

I've looked over the skill list, and it seems that some of the skills could use a little change. All in all, there is no real problem with the skills as they are, but I'm trying to improve things and make it a bit more intuitive.

The skills I'm particularly confused by are Decipher Script, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, and Use Rope.

Would Escape Artist be best as a simple Dexterity check? It seems an awfully narrow range of things you can do with it, and few of them come up a great deal in most campaigns.

How about Use Rope? Is there any use for it that could not be subsumed under some Profession? Or a Dexterity check?

Decipher Script: is it needed as a skill? If you can read the alphabet, you are more likely to be able to piece together what it says and understand it. It seems more like something you could do with Speak Language and an Intelligence check.

Is Forgery better served as Craft (document)?

After reading Disguise, it seems like the skill is mostly about putting on make-up well. Could it be better subsumed under a Perform (acting) check modified by a synergy bonus from Bluff and a circumstantial bonus from having a costume?

Also, would adding Navigate (Int) to the skill list be worthwhile considering how many vocations depend upon it that do not go tromping about in the woods?

 

[Geoff Watson]

I've looked over the skill list, and it seems that some of the skills could use a little change. All in all, there is no real problem with the skills as they are, but I'm trying to improve things and make it a bit more intuitive.

The skills I'm particularly confused by are Decipher Script, Disguise, Escape Artist, Forgery, and Use Rope.

Would Escape Artist be best as a simple Dexterity check? It seems an awfully narrow range of things you can do with it, and few of them come up a great deal in most campaigns.

How about Use Rope? Is there any use for it that could not be subsumed under some Profession? Or a Dexterity check?

Decipher Script: is it needed as a skill? If you can read the alphabet, you are more likely to be able to piece together what it says and understand it. It seems more like something you could do with Speak Language and an Intelligence check.

Is Forgery better served as Craft (document)?

After reading Disguise, it seems like the skill is mostly about putting on make-up well. Could it be better subsumed under a Perform (acting) check modified by a synergy bonus from Bluff and a circumstantial bonus from having a costume?

Also, would adding Navigate (Int) to the skill list be worthwhile considering how many vocations depend upon it that do not go tromping about in the woods?

Escape Artist is to give small/weak characters a chance of escaping a grapple.
I agree that Use Rope and Forgery are pretty useless, but no-ones forcing you to take them.

Geoff.

 

[Wolf72]

I think navigate, or find direction (ahh in 2e wasn't it direction sense?) is covered under survival.

 

[ARandomGod]

Escape Artist is to give small/weak characters a chance of escaping a grapple.
I agree that Use Rope and Forgery are pretty useless, but no-ones forcing you to take them.

Geoff.

Escape artist is actually quite useful. And it IS just a dex check if you don't have the skill, as it can be used unskilled. As for your other observations, they seem like perfectly good house rules. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[dvvega]

I think the reason they made Escape Artist seperate is that if you subsumed it under another skill, the character doesn't have to spend points on it, and has suddenly got a great anti-grapple ability. Having it seperate means you consciously have to decide between grapple-defence or something else.

Use rope could be part of a Profession indeed. Most professions that employ ropes (climbers, rustlers etc) know how to tie knots/throw rope and so forth. However what of the boy scout type person? The kid who learnt all his knots, got the badges, but never learnt much more. Probably a corner case situation so Use Rope should probably be a Profession related skill. Of course what happens if someone doesn't want the profession but wants the skills?

Decipher Script is not simply being able to piece things together. What if it is in a language you have no idea about? It allows you to at least decipher what the message says. Speak Language is inappropriate since you would need the language in question, whereas a simple Intelligence check doesn't cater for the bookworm who knows everything about languages.

Forgery is badly written in my opinion. It should be a feat that is used in conjunction with Craft/Profession/Performance skills etc. Forge a painting? I have the Forgery feat and Craft(painting) so I can make a Craft check. Make cosmetic jewelery that no one can detect? I have Forgery and Profession (gemcutter).

Disguise does not state that it is makeup. A disguise includes things like mannerisms, voice and appearance. An example from movies is "The Saint" with Val Kilmer. His various disguises would have been a disguise check with the appropriate synergy bonuses. Perform (acting) wouldn't give you the skills in make-up, however Profession (stage actor) may do just that.

Navigation is part of a lot of professions, and Survival allows you to know your direction as well. There are many options open to a character who wishes to have a direction sense ability.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It has always seemed strange to me that with Disguise it is ridiculously easy to believably impersonate another individual; on the other hand they don't dwell on what is surely the single most common purpose of disguise - i.e. to *not* look like yourself, hiding your appearance and becoming "generic".

It also seems wrong to me that disguise is detected by the uber-skill spot, when it seems like an excellent candidate for the under-used Sense Motive.

Cheers

 

[dvvega]

PlaneSailing: you are correct in one way, however I believe Spot AND Sense Motive have specific tasks.

Spot allows you to notice inconsistencies in the Disguise - the moustache is a little loose, or the mascara is running.

If you don't Spot the Disguise, you can Sense Motive to work out inconsistencies in their speech patterns and the way they are behaving.

 

[Mod_Bod]

Anyone ever try this or have house rules written for merging skills???

I know I have asked this before (with no luck) but, has anyone ever tried the reverse of adding new skills and actually contracted (& renamed) all the skills into logical groups of two or three each? I'd like to try this IMC, with the starting point of "Sneak" from AU. If "Hide" and "Move Silently" can be merged, shouldn't the opposing checks of "Listen" and "Spot" be joined too? I know the skill points assigned to each class per level would be screwed up, but making the multitude of related and similar skills easier to work with would be something I would like to see. I really dislike creating high-level NPCs from scratch, because of the skill point issue. Could someone let me know if this has been tried or discussed before (and where)?
Also I would be interested to know, if anyone has come up with any new uses for skills, as in the Book of Iron Might. Has anyone given any thought to conjoined skills, also from the BoIM?

 

[Ry]

I do this:

Spot and Listen are Perception
Open Locks, Use Rope, and Disable Device are Manipulate Mundane Devices (MMD)
Intimidate is called Command (for the forceful kinds of social interaction)
Otherwise it's Convince (for the non-forceful kinds of social interaction)

I have an Intuition skill I added; it takes over Search, but is also a kind of "DM Hint" button - I'm thinking of throwing Sense Motive in there as well.

 

[Man-thing]

We use

Spot, Listen, Search --> Perception (Wisdom)
Open Locks, Disable Device --> Disable Device (Int)
Tumble, Balance --> Acrobatics (Dex)
Jump, Climb --> Athletics (Str)

This frees up quite a few skill points so my players can take ranks in the "lesser" used skills like forgery, perform, craft, ...