Additions to the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list

[Li Shenron]

First of all I see no reason why all the spells you wrote in the first list could not indeed belong to the Wiz/Sor list as well. For example I never understood why Animate Object is for clerics and not for wizards? Find Traps? Air Walk? Silence?

I think the reason behind most of them is just D&D tradition: someone gave these spells to clerics once, and no one complained loud enough about the fact

About healing magic, the subject is more complicated.

1) To one side, it is still a matter of D&D tradition, and I bet that other RPGs don't associate healing magic with religious figures at all. That means you have all the right to break the tradition and make what you want in your setting.

2) To the other side, there's roles (strategically speaking). In basic D&D divine casters cover the healing role, and if you give other classes the same abilities, you are just shifting the role from one class to another or - more appropriately - "spreading" the role over more classes. Just ask yourself if this suits your game, because it may not necessarily be a good thing for the wizard who might be "morally required" to focus on healing the others.

3) Finally, the balance issue is really non-existent in this case IMHO. At least because arcane casters won't know these spells "for free" like divine casters do, and as such a wizard is perhaps going to learn a couple of healing spells at the expense of a couple of utility/defensive/offensive spells less. Frankly it doesn't change the balance AT ALL, unless you are perhaps using the D&D rules to play a sort of arena game instead of a RPG. Would be far worse if you moved wiz/sor spells to the cleric list.

 

[Merlion]

Exactly right on all counts.

As far as the healing role, its already pretty spread...Mages are the only magic using class with no healing ability at all to speak of. As I have it, Mages would be vastly below Clerics and even Druids in healing, a bit better than the bard and only way better than the ranger/paladin.

As you said most of these spells are ones that really fit the Wizard mold better than the Cleric, but some of them are just legacy issues. Really just about every gripe I have about DnD, almost, comes down to legacy issues.

And as you said adding spells to the Wizard and especially the Sorcerer is rarely going to cause much imbalance unless the spell itself is broken since Wizards and sorcerers dont get all their spells for free like Clerics (one of the problems i have with the Cleric).


I may actually get to play in a campaign again for the first time in ages soon, and the DM is considering this list...he seemed pretty receptive to some of the specfic things I mentioned to him. I just wanted to get the feel from those here, especially about those spells (Air Walk, Flame Strike, Searing Light, Death Knell etc) which to me pretty much scream wizard.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Say there's 3 basic roles that magic fills -
Healing
Damage
Utility

Clerics get Excellent healing, Okay damage, and Decent utility.
Wizards get No healing, Excellent damage, excellent utility.

If a cleric can be excellent at healing, okay at everything else, wear plate armor, use okay weapons... why can't a Wizard be excellent at damage, excellent utility, poor healing but give up armor and weapons?

Amen. Don't forget clerics have another good save, better BAB and better HP.

 

[Merlion]

Now if I could just get people on the WOTC board to see that LOL

 

[Li Shenron]

Also, adding healing spells to the wiz/sor list doesn't necessarily mean (1) to add ALL of them and (2) to keep them at the same level, as some people automatically think when someone says the wizards should heal too.

For example, clerics are already not the only ones who can actually bring someone back from the dead (druids cast reincarnate, wizards can use a limited wish to replicate raise dead), but it definitely keeps a good flavor around clerics if they are still going to be the ones who do it with ease
For this reason, you may not necessarily want to add Raise Dead or Resurrection to someone else's list. Or if you do you may increase the spell level so that RD becomes a 9th level spell.
Same job can be done with lesser healing spells to leave the curing edge to the clerics.

And as you said adding spells to the Wizard and especially the Sorcerer is rarely going to cause much imbalance unless the spell itself is broken since Wizards and sorcerers dont get all their spells for free like Clerics (one of the problems i have with the Cleric).

Incidentally, have you taken a look at UA's spontaneous clerics and druids? They are definitely limited in the known spells, although there are other issues, particularly with clerics being able to become quite too similar to a sorcerer and too different with standard clerics if they wish.

 

[Merlion]

Yes, I have UA.

Currently I am working on a Priest base class that i hope will be more balanced than the Cleric and do a better job of being specfic to religions.

The base class gts a d6 hit die, light armor, good will saves medium BAB and 7 levels of spells, and a very small basic spell list.

At 1st level you choose one domain and its your primary. It either increases you to 9th level full progression spellcasting or ups combat ability (probably up to d8 hit die, heavy armor and the like) or in some cases other things (Trickery may end up increasing skils), and adding spells to the spell list and a granted power at 1st, 6th and 11th level

Also at 6th and 11th level you may choose additional domains which add only their spells and grantedpowers.