Level Up (A5E) Adepts Can't Catch a Break

[Stone Dog]

I'm not particularly adept (heh) at 5th Edition in general, so let me try and break it down so I understand.

• Extra Attack gives you two attacks for one action.
• Two-Weapon fighting allows you to spend your bonus action for another attack with your off-hand weapon. If you also have Extra Attack, your bonus action nets you two attacks with your off-hand weapon.
• Flurry of Blows allows you to spend Exertion as a bonus action for two unarmed attacks.
• Unlikely Wield requires that you are using Light weapons (up to three?), but your bonus action doesn't limit you to two off-hand weapon attacks. You can use whichever of your three light weapons you want.

To me, an important question is "Do unarmed attacks count as an off hand weapon."

• If so then...
  • Flurry of Blows is slightly better than Two-Weapon Fighting from 1st-4th level since for the expenditure of Exertion, you do get one more attack.
  • Flurry of Blows does nothing from 5th level on because Two-Weapon Fighting does the same thing and is free.
• If not, then...
  • Flurry of Blows is better than Two-Weapon Fighting from 1st-4th level since they are attacks you don't have to be armed or have an offhand weapon to make AND you get one more attack than you would have.
  • Flurry of Blows is kind of irritating from 5th level on because Two-Weapon Fighting does ALMOST the same thing and is free and then it becomes "Why is it harder to punch things twice instead of stab things twice?."

Does that all make sense?

Thank you for helping me understand, I wasn't a fan of 5e so I didn't pay much attention to it, but Level Up feels much more colorful and fun.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm not particularly adept (heh) at 5th Edition in general, so let me try and break it down so I understand.

• Extra Attack gives you two attacks for one action.
• Two-Weapon fighting allows you to spend your bonus action for another attack with your off-hand weapon. If you also have Extra Attack, your bonus action nets you two attacks with your off-hand weapon.
• Flurry of Blows allows you to spend Exertion as a bonus action for two unarmed attacks.
• Unlikely Wield requires that you are using Light weapons (up to three?), but your bonus action doesn't limit you to two off-hand weapon attacks. You can use whichever of your three light weapons you want.

To me, an important question is "Do unarmed attacks count as an off hand weapon."

• If so then...
  • Flurry of Blows is slightly better than Two-Weapon Fighting from 1st-4th level since for the expenditure of Exertion, you do get one more attack.
  • Flurry of Blows does nothing from 5th level on because Two-Weapon Fighting does the same thing and is free.
• If not, then...
  • Flurry of Blows is better than Two-Weapon Fighting from 1st-4th level since they are attacks you don't have to be armed or have an offhand weapon to make AND you get one more attack than you would have.
  • Flurry of Blows is kind of irritating from 5th level on because Two-Weapon Fighting does ALMOST the same thing and is free and then it becomes "Why is it harder to punch things twice instead of stab things twice?."

Does that all make sense?

Thank you for helping me understand, I wasn't a fan of 5e so I didn't pay much attention to it, but Level Up feels much more colorful and fun.

To your question, No unarmed strikes are not off-hand weapons. Further, they are not even finesse weapons (though you can use dex for attack and damage with them, you can't use them for rogue sneak attacks for example....which is reaffirmed in the Monk/rogue multiclass feat that does allow you to use Unarmed Strikes for sneak attacks).

If we are assuming "Regular" TWF, you do not get your ability score bonus on your off hand attacks.

So a 5th level fighter with 16 str would have like a 1d8+3 x2, 1d6 x2 kind of scenario (DPR 22)
A 5th level Adept with flurry could do like a 1d6 +3 x4 (DPR 26).

So the Adept does more damage at the cost of exertion.

With the TWF style:

Same fighter will do 28 DPR, so yes is just straight up better than the Adept doing Flurry of Blows.


Now all is not lost for the adept. They could choose to wield a dagger in their off-hand and do DPR 24 (but at no exertion cost, which is big). OR.... take the Adept Weapon Focus feature and pick up a double weapon. Now they have 1d8 + 3 x4 (DPR 30), they get +2.5 AC against a single attack, AND don't use any exertion. Frankly Adept Weapon is such an incredibly good focus feature I can't see any adept that wants to do combat not pick it up at some point.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Since the game now has brass knuckles and punching daggers you can easily use those and dual wield and still just punch people.

 

[Stone Dog]

I am almost completely unconcerned with whether a Fighter can out DPR an Adept. In fact I rather think a Fighter should do so.

However, the point that 2WF misses out on ability scores for damage is good to remember.

So a 5th level Adept can go for regular 2WF for free or spend Exertion on the more damaging Flurry of Blows.

I'm good with that.