Adjudicating Exaltedness

[carborundum]

We'd an incident last night and I was left wondering if the Vow of Poverty druid had overstepped the mark, or if I'm mistaking Exalted for softie too much.

The background. The PCs are on a ship and there's a stowaway, an old enemy who's a Beguiler. This enemy has poisoned one character and posed as an amorous admirer of another to get him alone. Once in bed she sneaked in a Hold Person and Coup de Grace'd him. He survived and she left when his fast healing kicked in, freaking her out slightly.

The amorous admirer she posed as was a young, rebellious daughter of a family travelling as passengers on the ship. The party, on hearing what happened, roused the family and demanded they appear in the captains cabin immediately. They were understandably frightened, but then again - the party had no way of knowing there was an illusionist on board, having swept the ship with Detect Evil and Detect Magic. (Bad Girl had Misdirection active and was in a Rope Trick anyway)

When the daughter hid behind her father and he started to get annoyed with how they were being spoken to, the Exalted Druid cast Beast Claws to 'let them know they were serious'. Big, black, hairy, six-inch claws...

Not the behaviour I expect from her, but is it going too far?

 

[Ambrus]

Not certain that this topic properly fits into the Rules forum since it's largely a role-playing issue.

If the druid had attacked the parents without provocation then I'd say that it would constitute an evil (or at very least not exalted) act. As is all she did was threaten the couple. Considering that the group was attempting to uncover a would-be-murderer (a violent and dangerous evildoer) and that their best efforts had so far proven unsuccessful, a little saber-rattling might not be completely out of line while interrogating possible accomplices.

At worse it's a little rash and abusive on the druid's part, but I certainly wouldn't revoke her exalted status over it. Give her a simple warning, perhaps by withholding her various VOP bonuses for a day while she contemplates her actions.

 

[moritheil]

When the daughter hid behind her father and he started to get annoyed with how they were being spoken to, the Exalted Druid cast Beast Claws to 'let them know they were serious'. Big, black, hairy, six-inch claws...

Not the behaviour I expect from her, but is it going too far?

Does she have some specific vow that prevents her from using threats? Admittedly, flavor-wise, intimidation may not "feel" exalted, but IIRC it isn't on the list of prohibited actions and thus it should be RAW-legal.

At worse it's a little rash and abusive on the druid's part, but I certainly wouldn't revoke her exalted status over it. Give her a simple warning, perhaps by withholding her various VOP bonuses for a day while she contemplates her actions.

I'm going to disagree with that suggestion. Were this a paladin, that would certainly be skirting the line with respect to the code of conduct, but druids and barbarians - exalted or no - are not required to be civilized.

 

[carborundum]

I wasn't sure which forum to put it in either, Ambrus - I went for Rules since the rules for exalted and VoP characters are strict (e.g. no atonement) and I was ...stuck.

When I think of Exalted, as opposed to Lawful Good, I think of Tripitaka the buddhist monk in Monkey. Threatening just seems wrong. Innocent til proven guilty and all that.

The whole concept is kind of weird, since she can hack bad guys into ikkel bitty pieces, but looking a bit cross (okay - looking like she's going to gut you and your children) really rings warning bells.

 

[Folly]

Since it is not against the RAW of exalted, it comes down to how/why the character is exalted. While you might have one idea in your head of what exalted is, there are plenty of examples of exalted characters that run the gambit of personalities. So long as she doesn't break with her fluff as being an exalted character, there shouldn't be a problem with using gritty methods.

 

[Nifft]

Intimidation isn't an evil act in my game. It may very well be a prelude to an evil act, though.

I'd have the father act as a genuine martyr for his beloved daughter. Not that he'll charge the Druid, but he won't take any guff, and will possibly provoke her by calling her out on her thug-like behavior.

Cheers, -- N

 

[irdeggman]

Well even if the act was "evil" it would not violate the VoP restrictions and thus be irredeemable. It might violate the exalted status - but that is redeemable (via an atonement spell, unlike VoP violations).

I don't see anything posted crossing the line on exalted status - but there might be more to the story. . .

 

[MarkB]

EDIT: Nevermind, misread the initial set-up.

 

[Artoomis]

At best, this is treading the line.

However, I would never take away (even temporarily) a PC's exalted status without a real-time warning to the player first.

In other words, it's a DM judgement call, but I'd warn the player first. Something like:

Druid PC's Player: "I show my claws in a threatening manner."
DM: "Are you sure you want to do that - that would not be consistent with being an Exalted character?"

It's not really fair to make such judgement calls after-the-fact when deciding whether something is outside the bounds of "exalted" is subject to so much individual player/DM judgement.

 

[moritheil]

At best, this is treading the line.

I still think this stems from an ideal of "saintly" behavior that does not necessarily apply to exalted characters. What precisely is wrong with intimidation in the 3.5 framework? The use of violence? Plenty of exalted characters are violent. The breaking of social customs? Exalted characters, particularly "wild" ones like druids and barbarians, are not required to honor those. There is nothing inherently good about them. Fear? Fear is not inherently evil.

It can be an extremely rude awakening to a player to be held to a code of conduct not spelled out in the rules, and it does not seem like this player has been told that there is anything unexalted about intimidation. Thus, I would most definitely not punish them. They can't be blamed if the DM has not said anything about it until now.