Adjudicating Readied Actions

[Dr. Zoom]

The same situation came up in our game this weekend; but from the opposite perspective:

I take one move to go around a corner into an unexplored room. I see humanoid enemies there, too far away to engage so I ready an action to punch (I am a monk) anyone who comes up to me. I stand my ground on Initiative 17.

Next round, on Initiative 18, the enemies release their "pet" from a cage outside the range of my light. (The pet is a big, dangerous animal; just the sort of thing that a monk should not go toe-to-toe with.) It charges me. So what should happen?

At first I rolled a single attack (the readied attack, "before" Init 18) and then adjusted my Initiative to 18 immediately rolled a flurry of blows. I got 3 attacks in on the pet before he could swing back. The DM and many of the players (including me) were a bit nervous about that precedent. We discussed it and temporarily house ruled it that I could not get more than my maximum number of attacks in a single round.

The problem with that idea is that I get one "readied" swing at the pet and then I essentially lose the next round of action by not getting to attack him again. (Or fight defensively or run behind one of the fighters and whimper like a schoolgirl. Whatever is most appropriate for a squishy monk.) So, it seems, the readied action allows you to have either a little too much power or a lot too little.

We considered house ruling it so that the readied action expires at the end of the round, but that seemed contrary to the spirit also.

It is still not your turn on init. 18 so you are still ready. The animal charges you. You get one unarmed attack against it. Your initiative changes to 18, but you do not get any more attacks this round. You have already taken your turn. If it survives your attack, it attacks you. If you survive, you attack next round on initiative 18 just before the animal. BTW, if you take this option, I would suggest trying to stun it if you still have a stunning attack available.

Even though you are ready, you do not have to make your attack. You can let the animal charge you and make its attack. If you live, your turn is next. You lose your readied action because you have not taken it yet. Now you get a full turn. Make a flurry of blows against the animal. Same advice with stun. Avoid grappling with wild animals if at all possible!

 

[Ristamar]

The same situation came up in our game this weekend; but from the opposite perspective:

I take one move to go around a corner into an unexplored room. I see humanoid enemies there, too far away to engage so I ready an action to punch (I am a monk) anyone who comes up to me. I stand my ground on Initiative 17.

Next round, on Initiative 18, the enemies release their "pet" from a cage outside the range of my light. (The pet is a big, dangerous animal; just the sort of thing that a monk should not go toe-to-toe with.) It charges me. So what should happen?

At first I rolled a single attack (the readied attack, "before" Init 18) and then adjusted my Initiative to 18 immediately rolled a flurry of blows. I got 3 attacks in on the pet before he could swing back. The DM and many of the players (including me) were a bit nervous about that precedent. We discussed it and temporarily house ruled it that I could not get more than my maximum number of attacks in a single round.

The problem with that idea is that I get one "readied" swing at the pet and then I essentially lose the next round of action by not getting to attack him again. (Or fight defensively or run behind one of the fighters and whimper like a schoolgirl. Whatever is most appropriate for a squishy monk.) So, it seems, the readied action allows you to have either a little too much power or a lot too little.

We considered house ruling it so that the readied action expires at the end of the round, but that seemed contrary to the spirit also.

If the combatant takes the readied action into a subsequent round, and the conditions are met before the combatant's normal initiative, the combatant's initiative rises to that new point in the order of battle, the combatant may take the readied action, and whether that action is taken or not, the combatant does not get a regular action that round.

Here is the scenario prevented above, by the rules:

- Round 1: Monk (init 17) readies an attack
- Round 1 ends
- Round 2: "Pet" is released and approaches the monk
- Pet triggers monk's readied attack on init. 18 and the monk may not take another action this round
- Monk's initiative effectively becomes "18.1"
- Pet (assumingly) attacks the monk on init. 18
- Round 2 ends
- Round 3: Monk may attempt Flurry of Blows on a subsequent round just before the pet gets to act

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe you can also cancel your readied action before the very end of the round if it was not triggered, opt to take an appropriate partial action, and become stuck at the very lowest point in the intiative cycle.

I have a feeling I'm wrong about that, though. It may have been a house rule. *ponder* Wish I had my books here....

 

[IceBear]

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Fair enough. I don't think your house rule is unreasonable. I just don't see a great need for it.

Oh I agree. It will rarely come up, but Daniel provided an example that did seem a little off - I was just describing how I would handle it *IF* it ever came up.

]
If possible, the archers would just take a 5 and loose a full volley at the fighter. Besides, I would not go out of my way to make sure the fighter gets this advantage, especially in such an inherently disadvantageous situation. Let the fighter sweat until he closes the distance. Archers are fearful threats, after all.

I have to ask - Take a 5???? What do you mean? A 5ft step? They could do that but they'd only get to shoot one arrow each (partial action, not a FRA with ready).

In my example there is only one archer. Like I said, it isn't a big deal, you just end up with different situations depending on how the actions are taken (I know, an artifact of using segmented rounds).

Let's say there were 5 archers, and they are 30ft away from the fighter. Now, if the fighter moved first, and then ducked back around the corner, if the archers moved up to find him, they'd have to move more than 30ft (thus, no attacks). The fighter could then move into them and whirlwind them to death.

That's one extreme.

The other is the fighter moves last, so he got shot by 5 arrows. The next round he got shot by 5 more before he could move.

It's because of this two extreme situations that I have come up with this idea of how to handle it if it should come up.

IceBear

 

[Dr. Zoom]

After the archer takes his readied shot, your alt.scenario had the fighter move up next to him. I meant that the archer (or archers) in that case, on their turn, could take a 5 foot step and loose a full attack of arrows.

In your latest example where the fighter wants to duck back behind the wall, perhaps let the archers go first per the rule, but give the fighter a dex check or a reflex save against a DC of the archer's attack roll in order to make it to safety. Just a suggestion.

 

[IceBear]

Yup, that's another idea I had to.

But as I said before, this scenario might never come up, so I'm just going to use my DMing licence to make a decision on what best fits the situation (currently I'm going with the readied action now comes just after the trigger, but in some it might be a save).

Please, just so you understand, I'm trapped at work with too much time on my hands so I'm just turning over rules in my head. For the most part, I really don't see this as a big deal

IceBear

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I understand. It's helpful to have this type of back and forth about the rules and mechanics as they apply to more extreme situations. Makes you think about them so your game can be more fun and exciting. It can give you a better grasp of the rules, which is always a good thing.

Wish I had that much free time at work.

 

[IceBear]

I wish I didn't

Hit a long slow spell here - I provide consulting services to some banks, and right now is RRSP time in Canada so most of the banks are too afraid to make any changes, and thus no work for me.

Hopefully, it will pick back up soon and then I won' t have the time for this

IceBear

 

[Pielorinho]

Well, here's two scenarios, to illustrate why this situation seemed a little weird to us:

SITUATION I
Round 1: Fighter takes a full-attack action and kills a bunch of people.
Round 2: Fighter steps around a corner. A bunch of archers loose their readied arrows at him. Fighter continues his move action until he's standing right next to the archers, and then demonstrates the "great cleave" technique to them.

SITUATION II
Round 1: Fighter takes a full-attack action and kills a bunch of people. Fighter steps around a corner. A bunch of archers loose their readied arrows at him.
Round 2: The archers take a full attack action on the fighter. The fighter moves until he's standing right next to the archers, and then demonstrates the "great cleave" technique to them.

Note that, in a fluid combat situation, situations 1 and 2 should look identical: fighter attacks, moves, gets shot at, moves next to the archers, and kills them. But because of a strange feature of the readied action rules, they look very different: in the second scenario, mid-level archers can triple (or even quadruple, if they have rapid shot) the number of attacks they get on the fighter, due to nothing more than the structure of rounds and the way that readied actions normally work.

Daniel

 

[Gizzard]

I don't understand how you lost a round of actions.

Looking at Ristamar's example, I felt like I lost out on "Round 2". Basically, if his ruling is correct (and it agrees with how we eventually decided to play), I pick a Partial Action in Round 1 and then dont get to make another choice until Round 3. Thats a long time for a squishy little Monk to stand in front of an angry pet.

One point though is that I didnt see any discussion in the PHB about cancelling actions, so I assumed I couldnt. I notice Ristamar & Dr. Zoom both mentioned cancelling my action and selecting something more appropriate; though they each have a slightly different take on how to do this. Can someone quote me something here? It seems sensible, but I didnt find it in the Ready section.

I would suggest trying to stun it if you still have a stunning attack available.

Oh, believe me, I did. But big pets have Natural Armor and good Fort saves.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Looking at Ristamar's example, I felt like I lost out on "Round 2". Basically, if his ruling is correct (and it agrees with how we eventually decided to play), I pick a Partial Action in Round 1 and then dont get to make another choice until Round 3. Thats a long time for a squishy little Monk to stand in front of an angry pet.

You readied but the enemy did not charge. Instead they released their pet. Therefore, you "lost" round one because no one did anything. Round 2 comes and you are still ready. The pet charges. You either take your still readied partial action, or wait till your normal initiative and give him a flurry. Either way, you attack once and the pet attacks once. Round three is even, too. The only loss was the mutual first round inaction on both sides.

One point though is that I didnt see any discussion in the PHB about cancelling actions, so I assumed I couldnt. I notice Ristamar & Dr. Zoom both mentioned cancelling my action and selecting something more appropriate; though they each have a slightly different take on how to do this. Can someone quote me something here? It seems sensible, but I didnt find it in the Ready section.

DMG page 63 and 64 under "Adjudication the Ready Action." It says that if you do not take your readied action when the condition is met, you can stay readied (it gives the DM a couple of optional ways to make this more difficult, but those are not the standard rule). And the PH says that if you come to your next action and have not taken your readied action, you lose it. You can always ready the same action again, or do something else.