Adult: GUCK Development Forum again

[Gez]

I still remain in favour of the feat/prowess rank combo method, mostly because although the prerequisite feats may be better as conventional feats, the single-unlock system allows you to get one feat for access to five or six tricks, whereas otherwise you'd have to buy three or four for the same number, making carnal arts fairly scarce amongst lower-level players. It also avoids forcing characters to take feats they otherwise wouldn't want.

I'm not sure I understand well what you said. Requiring specific feats that have no other purpose would be less forcing characters to take feats they otherwise would not want ?

I'm all for carnal arts using conventional feats, myself. Only the most potent/dramatic arts would require specific feats.

And I think that all feats, even new ones, should be useful even without the art -- for a reason of style, I'm against feats that are prerequisites for prerequisiteness sake.

The way I see the typical requirements for a carnal art, that would be 0 to 2 feats, usually one; and 2 to 4 skill ranks.

 

[Sorn]

Gez, you hit the nail on the head. Also, some Carnal Arts could require skills other than Sexual Prowess... A Bondage Art would need Use Rope. If you want to add a domination aspect, Intimidate (probably the Cha aspect) would work. A Kama Sutra-like Carnal Art would have Escape Artist (for some of those positions, you either have to have a rubber spine or a lot of ranks in Escape Artist).

 

[kolvar]

everyone seen this?
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=718

 

[Sorn]

Kolvar: I saw it mentioned on the Mongoose forums, but I thought it was just a joke. Now we have some serious competition. However, judging by the other Encyclopaedia Arcane books, there won't be much in terms of actual sex rules, but the magic angle should be covered pretty well.

Someone should get the book (I'll check myself and see if the wife approves the purchase). Then we should go over things and see what in there is classified as Open Content, and how much overlap we already have.

As said, I would imagine that the "New Uses for Old Spells" and maybe some of the new spells therein could possible overlap.

In any case, I don't think that this should mark the end of our little (Okay... huge) project.

 

[Sorn]

Ok... downloading the file right now. I'll go over it during my lunch break and will post my findings when I'm done.

I'll keep a close eye on spells and open content.

 

[kolvar]

I was not implying, that we should stop our project, more, that we should start it in ernest (well I am rather pissed, that, everytime we get close to finishing it someone new steps in and says, what is all wrong, everybody complies (because the new one has allways been right so far) and we start over again. It is good, that we try to do the best guide we can, but we should come to an end some time. I realy do not know, which rules we will be using)

 

[Sorn]

Kolvar: I see where you are coming from. And I agree. Too many revisions and debates over things that could be done already. At least we are getting close to being done with the core mechanics. Once that is in place, the rest should go rather smoothly.

As far as EA: Nymphology goes... I only had a few minutes to go over things. It's not nearly as enhaustive as I feared it to be. No rules for sexual encounters, no pregancy rules, not nearly as many spells as in our book. Their "new uses for existing spells" is not very detailed, but nice to read. A few creatures (including a "Creature of Lust" template) and an overview on the Plane of Lust. Feats are very general (one gives a +2 to some social skills when used in the bed, another lets you use Cha instead of Int to set your spell DC's). New uses for existing skills (Alchemy for aphrodisiacs, Concentration [new DC's for casting while enganging in intercourse or being "serviced"] and Perform [into which they include fellatio and strip-tease as new artforms]).

I'll go over the spells in a little more detail tonight, but at first glance I spotted the obligatory "Make your penis bigger" spell, a lubrication spell, and Summon Sex Partner I-IV.

On the bright side, all text containing game information is Open Content. What we will do with it is in the air, but at least we can reference to it.

This was only a brief look-through, but it definitely looks more like a complimentary book than a replacement.

 

[kolvar]

thanx sorn

 

[Sorn]

Ok... read EA: Nymphology from beginning to end.

Here are a few notes:

Introduction:
A few pages on the history of "blue" magic, its practicioners and how it is viewed by other mages and the general public. It then launches into a discussion of the dangers of sex magic (over-indulgence, broken hearts, etc.). It is finished out by new uses for existing spells. An interesting spin on this was that most spells started out with a carnal idea and were generalized to be presented to the teachers at the wizard's school. This section is fairly brief and each spell school only mentions one or two spells.

Spells:
Twelve pages of spells. All of them are either Bard or Sor/Wiz. No cleric spells, no druid spells, no new domain lists. Nothing earth-shattering here, but a few nice ones. Once we get to spells, I'll compare and see what kind of overlap we have, but I am not expecting too much.

Plane of Lust:
This is fairly well done, but all in all it is different enough from our Plane of Eros so we don't really have to worry about it. Theirs states that it is the source of all lust and love, ours is where it ends up. Maybe we can mention the Plane of Lust as bordering the Plane of Eros.

Then we have the Creature of Lust template. Same idea as ours, but slightly different when it comes to abilitities. Maybe rename ours to "Carnal Creature"?

Prestige Classes:
All of them are 5-level PrC's.

Agony Mage: relationship/sex therapist who can pry personal secrets from "clients" and sometimes uses them for blackmail.

Mystic Pimp: summoner who rents out summoned beings for obvious purposes.

Seducer: erotic mage, but rather plainly done. Considering there are no actual sex rules in the book, not surprising.

Peeping Scryer: diviner gone bad

Skills&Feats:
As mentioned in my earlier post, nothing too earthshattering here. A handful of new alchemical concoctions, a new DC table for Concentration to cast spells during sexual activities, and new suggested used for the Perform skill. Feats... new use for Endurance, one called Bedroom Proficiency (+2 social skills for romantic encounters), another one that gives a small bonus to social skills with people you had sex with within the last month, and the abovementioned "Use Cha for spell DC's" feat.

Nothing at all like our section.

Magic Items:
A handful of cockrings and chastity belts, 3 new potions, a new armor enhancement (Flattering Armor... +2 Cha skills with appropriate targets), one really silly weapon (Porksword of Popping), and some misc. items like Sexy Sheets (self-cleaning and casts an illusion on your bedpartner in the morning to avoid heart attack), Hoisery of Lacyness (when worn with nothing else gives you the benefit of some of the sexyness-enhancing spells), and my favorite... the Carved Monkey of Spanking (after you spank it, you are immune to sex-magic for 24 hours).

Lastly, we have Creatures...
Nothing terribly exciting... mostly silly critters like the Bearded Clam or a plant that pretends to be a naked humanoid inviting someone to have sex, only to ram a seedpod into their rectum.

All in all, it's nice, and I laughed a lot. It's definitely a nice companion volume to the BoUCK.

 

[Death By Surfeit]

Sorry for the long abscence, everyone, but if it’s any consolation going internet cold-turkey hasn’t been great for me either . After reading over everyone’s contributions, there’s a couple of issues to deal with, which I will go into over the course of this post.

Welcome to the editing board, Asher! It’s always good to hear from someone who has playtested the NUCK to such an extent, and your post included useful material and important considerations that will undoubtedly help. I’ll get to that in a moment.

Firstly, from what I’ve heard of the Nymphology book it’s vague, lighthearted and (like an awful lot of the Encyclopaedia Arcana books in my opinion) rather naff. As far as I can tell it poses no more threat or challenge to the BoUCK as the existence of the DbS conversion or the original guide - it’s shallow and narrow-band, whereas what we’re producing is a comprehensive and really rather wonderful compilation of all the carnal knowledge applicable to D&D.

In other words, we can plain ignore it to no detriment of our own. Keep working, everyone!

The second issue seems to be a split in the board over how we’re going to be handling the Carnal Arts (which I will refer to as Arts from now on). Gez, and I think Sorn, are in favour of using conventional feats in the same manner as OA. VVrayven and myself prefer an unconventional feat system. Our recently decloaked Asher prefers another system entirely which, whilst interesting, I feel is a little cumbersome.

I could try to mediate in this situation, engage in long rhetoric to sway you to my method of thinking, but have instead chosen to put forward my own proposition, albeit somewhat foreshortened. Everyone is free to give feedback or make their own contribution, but should it pass muster with the group I will write out and post up the full version.

So, without further ado....

CARNAL ARTS
Specific Feat Proposal, Draft Copy

SYSTEM
Carnal arts are positions, maneouvres, capabilities and tricks which enhance your prowess in new and interesting ways. Each of the six Arts is linked to a key ability score - the higher your score, the more useful it will be to you.

In order for you to gain access to an Art, you must take the relevant feat. Once this is taken, you may use the Art’s techniques a number of times equal to the appropriate ability score (or more, if you take the feat multiple times). More and more different techniques become available as you progress in levels of Prowess, in much the same manner that more and more applications of bardic music become available when a bard goes up ranks in Perform.

FEAT
The generic form of Carnal Art feats goes along these lines. The title and key ability score changes with each, but the mechanics remain consistent between them.

CARNAL ART (Carnal)
You are familiar with the Art in question, a brief summary of which is included here
Prerequisite: Key ability score 13+, 3 or more ranks of Sexual Prowess
Benefit: You may safely use the techniques of the Art a number of times equal to your key ability modifer before resting.
Normal: Characters without this feat cannot use the Art’s techniques.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, allowing you to use the techniques an additional nmber of times equal to your key ability modifier before resting.

ARTS
The Arts (and their associated techniques) are summarised below very briefly. Each Art has five associated techniques for the sake of balance, but the prerequisites for each vary. All names, effects and so on are purely for draft - suggestions are helpful. Effects last for one round unless otherwise stated.

Five Immaculate Forms of the Master (Str)
The personal teachings of Weil-Hung, the exiled half-orc monk.
Powerful Lover - Use Str as key ability until Climax or Ecstasy
Charging Ram - Increase effective size category of phallus by half/one whilst penetrating
Gulping Heron - Make (Str mod) extra Prowess checks whilst penetrated - take highest
Squeezing Boa - Grapple in which Prowess is used is inescapable
Stinging Cobra - Make Prowess checks with unarmed melee attacks

Flowers of the Decadent Blossom (Dex)
A subtle art learnt by the carefree upper echelons of highest society.
Nimble Lover - Use Dex as key ability until Climax or Ecstasy
Love for Many - Reduce/ignore penalties for multiple partners
Secret Affair - May make Prowess check through clothing and armour
Love of Many - May make check to use rank bonus to Prowess multiple times
Open Romance - Ignore all penalties for circumstances, love of others, past experience etc etc

Techniques of the Halfling Harlot (Con)
Survival traits passed down through the ranks of the halfling whorehouses.
Accomodating - Minimise Size Matters damage
Muscle Relaxation - Increase size of given orifice by half/one
Selfless Lover - Gain bonus if partner gets penalty
Feign Pain - Pretend damage was maximum w/ regards sadism until Climax or Ecstasy
Induce Sadism - Give partners the sadism fetish

Tricks of the Great Improviso (Int)
The inheritance to society of the legendary gnome Arcanalist.
Imaginative Lover - Use Int as key ability until Climax or Ecstasy
Adaptability - Reduce/ignore penalties for other types of creatures until Climax/Ecstasy
Improvisation - Apply Prowess bonus to any technique, regardless of proficiency
Subtle Touch - Make Prowess check without partner realising
Mind Games - Turn partner’s arousal into lustfulness

Lore of the Tantric Ancients (Wis)
Learnt from ancient books where wisdom and sensuality were one.
Spiritual Lover - Use Wis as key ability until Climax or Ecstasy
Humble the Mountain - Ignore sexual fatigue for single Climax/Ecstasy
Dam the River - Automatically succeed at save to ignore Arousal shift
Climb the Mountain - Modify check result to turn Climax into Ecstasy
Swim the River - Ignore all penalties for Arousal.

Art of the Immortal Nymph (Cha)
Communal tips and tricks shared amongst the finest and most glamorous courtesans.
Encapsulating Touch - All Concentration checks against Arousal fail
Dreamlike Presence - Reduce/ignore one penalty for differing sexual alignment/frets etc
Beatific Presence - Ignore penalty for using striptease, exotic dance etc. to raise above Aroused
Irresistable Touch - Partner cannot make save against Arousal
Monumental Presence - Post-coitus attitude changes are irrevocable

You’ll notice that the option to use other key abilities for Prowess modifier has been included in these Arts (except from Cha, where it is already used, and Con, where it cannot). This is one of many options, as the trick could be to combine key ability with Cha as twofold bonus, double given bonus, something completely different etc. etc. Feedback please on this.

As ever, this is only working copy and is free to be ditched or changed in any way you see fit - suggestions for improvement or alternative renditions are very much appreciated.

Hear from you all soon,

Death B Surfeit