Adult: GUCK Development Forum again

[Sorn]

Firstly, from what I’ve heard of the Nymphology book it’s vague, lighthearted and (like an awful lot of the Encyclopaedia Arcana books in my opinion) rather naff. As far as I can tell it poses no more threat or challenge to the BoUCK as the existence of the DbS conversion or the original guide - it’s shallow and narrow-band, whereas what we’re producing is a comprehensive and really rather wonderful compilation of all the carnal knowledge applicable to D&D.

In other words, we can plain ignore it to no detriment of our own. Keep working, everyone!

Exactly my sentiments. However, since all non-fluff segments are open content, I'd suggest once we get to editing our spells, we check for duplicates and compare. Nothing I hate more than countless d20 spells by different publishers that do the same thing. My wife is working on an Excel spell list of all the books we own (which is a lot), and there are quite a few examples of duplicate spells, where there shouldn't be. How many different versions of a given cleric domain do we really need? So, instead of duplicating, we could reuse some of the material presented elsewhere. I am not saying the whole spell list from EA:Nymphology, but where applicable.

The second issue seems to be a split in the board over how we’re going to be handling the Carnal Arts (which I will refer to as Arts from now on). Gez, and I think Sorn, are in favour of using conventional feats in the same manner as OA. VVrayven and myself prefer an unconventional feat system. Our recently decloaked Asher prefers another system entirely which, whilst interesting, I feel is a little cumbersome.

My prime concern is the fact that most games will not have a sexual focus. It might be a part of it, maybe even a big part. However, if presented with the option of spending a lot of feats on sexual stuff or getting Power Attack and Cleave, most people will probably pick regular feats that are either beneficial to their survival or give general bonuses (like the various forms of Skill Focus).

The first draft with just Sex Tricks based on ranks in Sexual Prowess was supporting this view, since skill points are a lot easier to come by, and you get a lot of those few ranks in Sexual Prowess. Maybe only a handful of ranks down the road when you gained a few levels.

Having advanced versions (i.e. Carnal Arts) available is even cooler, but as said, feats are hard to come by, so if it can be handled with general feats that people already have, would be better in my opinion.

Your latest draft relies on only one feat, and a minimum rank of 3. That's pretty good, and I can live with that. It ensures that even low-level NPC's can pick up a carnal art, and we don't have to deal with 20th level prostitutes. I am still a little worried that people will shy away from taking a feat, but as long as the standard sex tricks are still available, that shouldn't be an issue.

Squeezing Boa - Grapple in which Prowess is used is inescapable
Stinging Cobra - Make Prowess checks with unarmed melee attacks

Just a quick question on those two... does that mean that you get to use the Carnal Art in combat? Rub a little here and there as you grapple someone? I noticed similar ones in the other arts, but those two stuck out the most.

If so, there would definitely be an increased value of getting the Carnal Arts feat, since it would be beneficial outside of your normal sex situation.

Again, that's my only worry... we design an elaborate Carnal Arts system and nobody uses it because they don't want to "waste" a feat for it and just make due with standard Prowess checks.

 

[kolvar]

I am with Sorn, that most of the feats, we contribute to the open gaming content should have a direct aplication outside the direct carnal contact, i.e. They give a flavor to your character, because they do something differently from other feats and the character is marked as a sensual/ sexual/ perverse being by it.
Now to the carnal arts: most of us know a bit about doing nice sex (apart form missionary position and doggy style) an some of even got basic skills in felatio or cunnilingus (for some of us even both). But most of us will probably never be the greatest lovers of history, tantric masters, students of the kamasutra or, when we come down to it, skillful doms.
What I am trying to say, is, that a basic, untrained skill should be the norm, the Art could be a feat and the special tricks could be mini-feats/ bard-like abilities, that the character could take while he raises his skill. Some of these mini-feats should only be take-able for charakters with the according art-feat.

(wow, the first time, I say something to the basic mechanism, and that after 1 1/2 year)

 

[Death By Surfeit]

It's nice to have your feedback, but I'm a little unsure as to what changes, if any, you'd like to make to the draft proposal. The idea of single-feat basing is that it accomodates three levels of player type/campaign carnality:

Little carnality: Does not use guide. Characters have no ranks in Perform, sex is done behind closed doors.
Moderate carnality: Uses guide. Characters may have a few ranks in Perform, and may know a few exotic spells.
High carnality: Uses guide. Characters on this level will not only have many ranks in Perform, but are also likely to take sexual feats (including Arts) or even classes.

The role of Carnal Arts in my opinion is quite clear. A character without ranks in Prowess can still do fairly well in a sexual situation (the rules have been engineered to that end), and a character with is even better. Carnal Arts add somewhat to the flavour of a character and allow them specialisation in their field, much as a fighter may have a favourite weapon.

They're less cumbersome than sexual tricks (which would be awkward when we're using Prowess for proficiencies in addition), and avoid the need to build classes with special sexual abilities. As several techniques are bundled in each, it makes them worthwhile feats, on a par with the conventional ones for game effects.

In essence, only those playing high-sexuality campaigns are likely to take them, but that's fine in my opinion. The GUCK is designed to cater for all levels of sexual content in a campaign without discrimination, and Carnal Arts are just one aspect of that. However, feel free to disagree with me on this.

With regard's Sorn's question on sexual activity in combat...

*checks for agitated, morally vigilant lurkers*

...we had accomodated NC situations by saying that a Prowess check (of whatever type) could be made as a full-round action on a grappled opponent. Stinging Cobra is an exception to this, allowing you to make them as an unarmed melee attack. This is clearly a rather neat way of distracting pesky spellcasters.

With regards spells: Nymphology may have spells of a similar purpose, but they were divorced from any actual sexual mechanics. The necessity in structuring ours is that they remain in line - having near-duplicate spell descriptions is fine (as you said, many people do it), as the most important thing is keeping integrity within the guide itself. And it saves the bother of referencing everything, too.

Feeeback, please from the rest of you - the only thing we can learn from Nymphology is the necessity of our own dedication to the Guide, as this hereforeto taboo subject is now starting to be cashed in upon by the large companies.

Ever onwards!

 

[kolvar]

Sorry, if my post got over strangely, I just wanted to state, what I think, the system should be able to accomplish.

 

[asra]

I'm following this thread with some interest, and wait to see the final result, but I would like to mention two points:

1) Please remember that it will be benficial if the guide addressed non-fantasy setting (aka D20 Modern, Star Wars, etc.)

2) It would be nice if the guide will also cover less carnal themes such as handling dating, picking up someone at a bar, when does an NPC falls in love with a character, etc. While usually the GM supposed to handle such things, it would be nice to have some guide lines about handling such things, esp. for normal characters.

Keep up the good work...

 

[asra]

Regarding my last post (as this is a contributerer thread) does such rules exist? If not, is a contribution is this direction wanted?

 

[Sorn]

DbS: Now it becomes clearer to me. This does sound pretty good.

As far as the grappling/NC issue goes, I think that's a great idea. I am sure with all the different pressure points used in Martial Arts, there could easily be pleasure points as well. One well-aimed attack later and the opponent has a mess in his loincloth.


Asra: welcome to the our little corner of the boards.

Currently, the guide focuses on fantasy settings, but the core mechanics will be easily ported to any d20 setting. After all, people are horny everywhere, doesn't matter whether it's an elf, a modern-day accountant, or a light-sabre wielding Wookie. Granted, the spells won't do you much good, nor the prestige classes.

However, what else do you really need for a modern-day setting?

Pregnancy rules are easily done... take human values, with maybe some adjustments on where you are in the world. Note that we can't come up with any racial modifiers for any Star Wars races, since they are licensed trademarks.

As far as dating/picking someone up goes, stick with opposed Bluff/Sense Motive rolls. A few new modifiers might not be a bad idea... let's keep that in mind when it comes time to go over the rest of the skills.

 

[Death By Surfeit]

How about the rest of you? Beyonds Sorn, Kolvar and Asra, the team seems pretty... quiet. Your opinions count for an awful lot, and it's terribly bad form to keep on vanishing like that. Anyone?

 

[Sorn]

They are probably all heading down to New Orleans for Mardi Gras to "playtest" some of the rules.

 

[asra]

About modern usage of the GUCK:
While the guide does aim toward fantasy setting, a more "natrualized" core rule terminology (one that does not refers to magic) would be nice. Later spells, skills, feats that are fantasy specific can be listed. Also consider the following:
* Repuation & Media plays a much borader role in modern settings, as the Gods might not be present but the gossip columns are (or at least people are)
* When adding interesting substances, some notes regarding real life substances instead of fantasy ones. Same goes for things like counterceptives.
* Toys & Equipments in a modern setting are usually quite different from their fantasy equivelents (no need for spell components - battaries do just fine)

About picking up something in the bar (or any kind of courtship to that matter):
After some discussion with friends, I'm not so sure about Bluff being the right skill. Diploamcy seem to be appropriate one as well, if not even more -- If a character court someone that he or she are attempting to improve the other character reaction toward them.
Consider using Diploamcy with such attitudes as Repulsed (instead of hostile), Unreceptive (unfriendly), Indifferent, Attracted (Friednly), Enamored (helpful), Enthralled (and additonal attidude). Add to this modifiers for mood, gender/race preference, etc. This can be repeated on differenct encounter to simulate the process of courtship. Good rolls can also effect the mental state of the participents (some find the courtship an important element of arousal).
Those attitudes can provide bonuses (or penalites) to other interactions, including sex. Great sex might also move the NPC to a more favorable attitude regarding the character.

In this case, character A first tries to get a better attitude from NPC B by using diplomacy. A bluff might simply represent an attempt of A to convince B ("never on first date!") to go to a more intimate place NOW. A successful bluff might get someone to bed but might cause some unfavorable reactions toward the seducer the next morning. Bluff is usually described as an element of fast-talk -- not every courship is neccessraly a pickup at a bar, and not every successful pickup at a bar mean automatic sex.

BTW, in D20 modern, Star Wars (and who knows maybe in D&D 3.5) perform skills are seperate - Prowerss might simply be written down in those as Perform (Sex)