Adult: GUCK Development Forum again

I am quite tickled that you guys have what appears to be serious competition for the title of the reference work on sex and D&D.

That said, depending on how dear this is to you, you may indeed want to push whatever timetable you have forward, and look into a print option, because whichever hits the shelves first on paper will be the face of D&D sex.

That said...having various options for this sort of thing is going to be something amusing to see! "Hmm, now do I use the GUCK, or the BoEF for this scenario?"

:D
 

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Wizards of the Coast is in no way associated with the product, "The Book of Erotic Fantasy," referenced recently on [websites]. We find the subject matter distasteful and inappropriate and do not endorse, condone, or approve of its use with the Dungeons & Dragons game. While the OGL license allows anyone, even our employees, to produce products that are compatible with Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards does not approve or control the theme of any third-party D20 product.

With WotC vehemently denying any involvement and going as far as denouncing it as distasteful, you probably won't find even the BoEF in their stores.

I have mentioned this previously, but with the treatment the Book of Vile Darkness received in quite a few stores, I doubt a hadcopy version of the GUCK will be financially feasible. A few stores in the area here don't even carry the BoVD, others (including the WotC stores) have it shrinkwrapped, hidden behind the counter or locked in a display box. Given the subject matter, I can see many retailers avoiding the GUCK (and the BoEF) like a plague-infected rat.

Another issue with a hardcopy version of the GUCK is artwork. I spent a lot of time hunting down art for this, and the artists gave me permission to use it in the final layout based on the assumption that the GUCK is a free pdf download. Once we start charging for a printed book, we would have to negotiate some sort of payment with them, or commission some new artwork really quick.

So, instead of worrying about the competition, we should concentrate on getting the GUCK finished. We have one distinct advantage over a printed competitor: price. A lot of people might have a passing interest in rules for sex, and given the choice between a printed version which will not be widely available in stores and a free pdf download with a name that many gamers recognize from 2nd Edition, I think the majority will go with the GUCK.

Besides, there's a lot of overlap in the d20 community. How many monster books are out there? How many books on Necromancy, Drow, Dwarves, Ships, etc. came out at roughly the same time? I think we are fine with where we are. Should someone find our product desirable enough to want to print it, we can consider it, but for now, let's focus on the meat, not the packaging.
 

Minute Rolls

It has always stricken me as peculiar that you had Prowess skill checks every round on this BOUCK version. A skill check per minute is so much logical and I think is the path you should take.

VVraywen, how does it look in your Javascript program when you do it like that?
 

::smile:: Actually the change doesn't do anything to my program at all. The rounds are rounds after all, so just consider the times to be in minutes (it's actually easier to calculate now, as you don't have to divide by 10 then figure time).

I think the minute rules work great. I have a working copy of Prowess 1.4 that I will post later today. It covers all things such as the change to the round from 6 second to 1 minute and how to handle interuptions to the combat mechanic. It also has all the new changes to the Prowess check that have been used in the latest runs of the program. I think we are getting REALLY close to a final version of the basic mechanic.

As for Anthony's product... I don't know if we should RUSH to get ours done. After all the spells and stuff are going to take a while. There really isn't a problem with theirs coming out before ours. I'm actually quite curious to see how they did their mechanics. Though I doubt they could be as in-depth as ours, I could be mistaken. ;)

I'll post 1.4 soon!
 

I'll be looking forward to version 1.4. I don't know what this project would do without you VVrayven.

As far as the BoEF goes, I sent a friendly email to Gwendolyn (co-author) this morning. I was primarily wondering about the scope of their book, so once I hear back, I'll let you guys know.

I didn't mean to imply to rush the GUCK, but rather keep our current focus and not lose momentum. The core mechanics are close to being done, and the rest can actually fall into place fairly quickly.

E.g. I just finished up the current list of PrC's. I did some major formatting, removed any references to Sex Tricks where applicable, and made some other minor fixes. Out of 17 PrC's, 6 are IMO final versions. 8 more are almost done, only pending some minor revisions or waiting for the final core mechanics. The last 3 are in their rudimentary stages, but could be very cool. Check out the progress on the site, if interested.

Spells will probably take the longest, but we can probably still wrap those up fairly quick, since not everything will be dependant on the core mechanics.

Btw, before we do spells, we need to take care of pregnancy, as there are a lot of spells related to that. Core mechanics first though :D
 

Prowess v1.4

As promised:

THE PROWESS SKILL v1.4

This skill is in addition to the skills normally available to characters, as found in Chapter 3 of the PHB.

PROWESS (Cha)
Use this skill to bewilder your sexual partners with an array of exotic techniques. Prowess is a class skill for all characters.

As with the Perform skill, each rank in Prowess gives you a technique within which you can apply your rank bonus to checks – you may not apply your Prowess bonus to any application for which you do not have the appropriate technique.

There are two types of techniques, basic and exotic (either of which can be taken as a rank). The techniques are listed below, organised into groups. Each technique found is chosen from those examples in brackets. If the group is open-ended, you are free to design your own additions, providing they remain within the nature of those preceding it.

Basic Proficiencies:
Caress (By type – Breasts, Erotic Massage, Stroking etc.)
Masturbation (Male, Female)
Oral (Cunnilingus, Fellatio)
Penetrative (By position – Cross, Frontal, Half-facing, Inverted, Matrimonial, Negresse, Rear, Riding, Scissors, Standing etc.)
Sodomy (Receiving)
Toys (By item – Dildos, Wands, Wizards’ Staffs, etc.)

Exotic Proficiencies:
Bondage (By type – Contortion, Hanging, Inverted, Ties etc.)
DSM (Domination, Submission)
Pillow Talk (Dirty, Sweet, Poetic)
Erotic Dance (Lapdance, Poledance, Striptease)

Special: Regardless of circumstances, it is impossible to take 10 or take 20 on a Prowess check, due to its unpredictable nature.

THE PROWESS CHECK

Performing a Prowess check on someone (including yourself) requires 10 rounds (one full minute) to execute successfully. Checks are also made only once per minute. If the character is interupted during this time and unable to complete the act, the attempt automatically fails and the minute must be started over. Only one prowess roll is made for the entire minute. Each round of the prowess check is considered a miscellaneous full-round action incurring attacks of opportunity. If an attack of oppurtunity hits you, the damage inflicted is coutned as a penalty to your prowess check and all such modifiers are cumulative. Unless specifically stated otherwise, Prowess checks can only be made against an Unwilling partner if they are grappled, helpless or immobile. Grappled targets must be grappled for the entire 10 rounds or the prowess check is interupted.

It is possible to make Prowess checks against more than one partner as the same full-minute action; if your character wishes to do so, a penalty of -4 per additional partner is applied to all checks. You cannot make more simultaneous checks than (1+Dex bonus) at any time, unless otherwise stated. In addition, the multiple prowess actions must be possible (a male cannot use a penatrative technuqie on more than one person for example).

Prowess checks are resolved for a single target at the end of the full minute in which they are completed. If multiple prowess checks are used on a single partner, the 10 rounds must be simultaneous (for example, two people could not pleasure a single partner each five rounds apart). Only ONE prowess result can affect a single person at any given time (A generous DM might allow a 1 or 2 round difference). Each prowess check is rolled off the target's current state of arousal and physical condition. The highest successful arousal increase is used as the base roll. If another participant succeeds the DC neccessary to raise the target's arousal or keep it at its current level, the base roll recieves a +2 synergy bonus. If the participant only can hit an arousal DC lower than the current state, then the base roll suffers a -2 circumstance penalty.

Example: Girl A is pleasuring herself (masturbation) while her partner (Guy B) has intercourse with her (she is only passively using her prowess on him, thus gains the full bonus to her own check and no multiple partner penalty). Both of them are aroused at the start of the round. Girl A has two prowess checks being using on her, (Guy B's and her own). Guy B gets a DC 21 (enough for the DC 20 to peak her) and Girl A gets a DC 19 (enough for the DC 18 to peak her). Guy Bs is the base roll (because it is higher) and it gets a +2 synergy bonus because of Girl A's success. So the final target DC is 20 and the check is a 23 (she is peaked). If instead, Guy B had his a DC 3, Girl A's check would have been the base and suffered a -2 penalty, thus the target DC for peak would be an 18 and the check a 17, and she would still only be aroused.

When making a Prowess check, you may apply as much or as little of your rank bonus as you desire, but the declaration must be made BEFORE you make the roll. Consult the table below for DCs according to your partner’s present condition, where the numbers on the left represent a male partner, and the ones on the right a female one.

Table X-XX: Arousal DCs
Current Arousal - None - Aroused - Peaked - Climaxed - Ecstatic
None -/- 13/16 26/32 52/64 104/128
Aroused -/- 3/4 14/18 28/36 56/72
Peaked -/- -/- 4/5 16/20 32/40

After the check is made, the partner’s Arousal is changed to fit the highest DC the character achieved. They may resist this change by rolling a Fortitude save against a DC based on the new arousal state (see Table X-XX2), adding an Unwilling bonus where applicable. If successful, they remain in their current state and no additional arousal is gained.

Table X-XX2: Resisting Arousal States
Rise to Aroused DC 10
Rise to Peaked DC 15
Rise to Climaxed DC 20
Rise to Estacy DC 25

If at any time a character fails to make the required roll to keep the their partner in the aroused state whilst they are already aroused or greater, the partner is entitled to a Fortitude save to avoid loosing all their arousal (and loosing their erection or drying up) and simply reside to aroused instead. This check is also made if sexual congress or any other prowess roll is interupted suddenly.

Table X-XX?: DCs to Avoid Total Arousal Loss
DC 0* - During Intercourse
DC 5 - During Oral Sex or Masturbation
DC 10 - During Other Foreplay
DC 15 - Unusual circumstances (parents walking in)
DC 20 - "I have just be stabbed by a sword!"

*Note is the modified DC is zero or below and the partner has a postive Fortitude save, no roll is required and is considered and instant success.

Every minute spent in climax or estacy indicates the partner sustained some form of orgasm. This allows the partner to aquire gratification (a basic measure of pleasure gained from the encounter). This is a running figure and is often totaled at the end of the encounter. Gratification is based upon the state of the partner and the number of rounds they have been sustained in that state. See Table X-XX3.

It is possible to keep a partner in Climax or Ecstasy for more than one minute, although this may result in adverse effects (see Status Conditions for more details). In order to do so, use the DCs listed in Table X-XX3. If the DC for Climaxed is not sustained, male characters lose all arousal; female characters reside to Aroused instead. After the first minute spent in Climax or Ecstasy, each further minute spent in Climax does one point of temporary Wisdom damage; each minute spent Ecstatic does 1d3 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

Table X-XX3: Extended Climax DCs
Round – Climax DC//Grat – Ecstasy DC//Grat
1st 16/20**//1 32/40**//2
2nd 24/25//2 48/50//4
3rd 32/30//3 64/60//6
4th 40/35//4 80/70//8
5th 48/40//5 96/80//10*

*Repeat numerical pattern ad infinitum. Numbers on left are male DCs, on right female DCs.
**Typical values for arising from Peaked.
Gratification values are cumulative – take those from each minute of Climax or Ecstasy.

When a partner is using a Penetrative technique against them, characters always make a Prowess check back, if only by virtue of just lying there. In the minutes in which the check is made against them, they must make a Prowess check back despite their non-active involvement. If they do not add their rank bonus to this, it is considered a free action and does not impose any penalties against any other checks they may wish to make.

TECHNIQUE SUITABILITY

Only basic prowess proficinces can be used to physically arouse a partner. Rules for using exotic proficiences are covered below. Not all Prowess techniques have equal application – some are best used to initially Arouse a partner, whilst others are best for bringing them to Climax. Switching techniques is possible during the 10 rounds, but the characters involved may not add their prowess bonus to any check based off that minute. One free position switch is allowed between each minute of prowess checks. Listed below are the modifiers to the DC for bringing a partner to different levels of arousal (as mentioned under circumstantial modifiers), based on groups of techniques.

Table X-XX?: Technique Suitability
Group - Aroused / Peaked / Climaxed / Ecstatic DC modifiers
Caressing - Aroused +0 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +10 / Ecstatic +10
Masturbation - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +2 / Ecstatic +5
Oral - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +2 / Ecstatic +5
Penetrative - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Sodomy - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Toys - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0

EXOTIC PROWESS TECHNIQUEs
Exotic proficienes are not used to physically arouse a partner, rather they are used to raise the partner's mental arousal level. The procedure for using exotic prowess is identical to that of normal prowess rolls, with the following exceptions:

--A partner resists mental arousal with their Will save instead of their Fortitude save.

--It is possible to use exotic prowess checks on more than one person and unless otherwise noted, the procedure is the same.

Mental Arousal is often easier at first, but extremely difficult to get high results. All of the usual circumstantial modifiers for prowess also apply to exotic prowess rolls. The following table lists the progression of mental arousal using exotic prowess:

Table X-XX: Mental Arousal DCs
Current \ Target None Horny Lustful Delierious
None <10/<15 10/15 50/55 90/95
Horny <1/<5 1/5 30/35 70/75
Lustful <1/<5 1/5 10/15 50/55

Table X-XX: Resisting Mental Arousal
Rise to Horny DC 10
Rise to Lustful DC 20
Rise to Delierious DC 30

Bondage: 5 or more ranks in Use Rope provides +2 syngergy bonus to this skill. Subjects that are bound may also be pleasured using normal prowess checks after a successful (minimum DC 10) use of this exotic techmique. If this is done, your partner continues to get the benefit from all kinks associated with bondage.

DSM: 5 or more ranks in intimidate grants a +2 synergy bonus to domination chekcs. 5 or more ranks in sense motive grants a +2 synergy bonus to submission checks. Because of the focus required for this skill, it is very difficult to use with multiple partners and all penalties for doing so are doubled. The maximum number of people that can be affected at a time with this proficiency is equal to your charisma modifier +1. Subjects that are dominated or turned on by your submission may also be pleasured using normal prowess checks after a successful (minimum DC 10) use of this exotic technique. If this is done, your partner continues to get the benefit from all kinks associated with DSM.

Pillow Talk: 5 or more ranks in bluff or diplomacy grants a +2 synergy bonus to pillow talk checks (these bonuses stack).

Erotic Dance: 5 or more ranks in Perform (with dance) grants a +2 synergy bonus to erotic dance. Erotic dance can be used on a large number of people. Virtually anyone who is within 30ft of the dancer and can see her well can be affected, they gain a +2 bonus to their Will saves. If the dancer focuses on a single person, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her check.

---END---

This still needs to be cleaned up. Sorn, I'll consider your revamp on the site to be 1.4a and good to go.

I'll be looking forward to version 1.4. I don't know what this project would do without you VVrayven.

Awww, you're sweet. <wink and smile>

PrC look good but a few need work. I'm dying to get my hands on the spells! ;) Lets get 1.4 cleaned up discuss it and then post 1.5 which should be our working version to go ahead with the rest of the guide.

I think there should be a feat that allows a prowess check every 5 rounds, giving a two to one advantage over someone, but this might cause a few issues if multiple partners or checks are involved. It all gets so much more messy with this mintue thing, but we have to do it. Maybe a sex art could expend a use to allow a prowess check in a single round. But I think allowing it as a general option is a bad bad bad idea (and not the kind of "bad" I'm in to either. ;))

<hugs to all> Let's get cracking!
 

I just wanted to offer a bit of feedback, having read this over. I know I'm coming in late on this topic, so if I'm treading where an area has already been covered, let me know people.

VVrayven said:
As with the Perform skill, each rank in Prowess gives you a technique within which you can apply your rank bonus to checks – you may not apply your Prowess bonus to any application for which you do not have the appropriate technique.

There are two types of techniques, basic and exotic (either of which can be taken as a rank). The techniques are listed below, organised into groups.

This section strikes me as slightly unclear. From what I gather, it means that when you spend ranks on Prowess, you take either Prowess (Basic Proficiencies) or Prowess (Exotic Proficiencies), since "either can be taken as a rank", right? That means that someone with five ranks in Prowess (Basic) can use those whether penetrating, masturbating, toys, etc., and someone with five ranks in Prowess (Exotic) would be able to apply that to DSM, pillowtalk, etc.

If that's how it works, I'm suggesting a mild rewrite to make that more clear, since I had to reread that part several times over to understand that those were the two groups, and each subcategory was not its own group. Of course, if I understood wrongly, then that doesn't say much for that section's clarity either. ;)

Special: Regardless of circumstances, it is impossible to take 10 or take 20 on a Prowess check, due to its unpredictable nature.

This may be opening up a new complication, but should that hold true when using a Prowess check against onesself? Unless there are some hefty situational modifiers, for the most part you're going to be able to get yourself off when masturbating.

Checks are also made only once per minute. [...] Only one prowess roll is made for the entire minute.

Maybe its me, but those two sentences seem a tad bit redundant.

Unless specifically stated otherwise, Prowess checks can only be made against an Unwilling partner if they are grappled, helpless or immobile. Grappled targets must be grappled for the entire 10 rounds or the prowess check is interupted.

Does this allow for the possibility that the one doing the grappling can also make the check? It would seem, from what I understand, that a person can't continue to grapple and make a Prowess check on the person they're grappling since that'd be too many actions, which is certainly what a lone rapist would do.

It is possible to make Prowess checks against more than one partner as the same full-minute action; if your character wishes to do so, a penalty of -4 per additional partner is applied to all checks. You cannot make more simultaneous checks than (1+Dex bonus) at any time, unless otherwise stated. In addition, the multiple prowess actions must be possible (a male cannot use a penatrative technuqie on more than one person for example).

This seems to indicate that you can make more than one Prowess check at a time, and that you can make more than just one Prowess check per minute, which isn't what the above sentences say. Confusing.

Table X-XX: Arousal DCs
Current Arousal - None - Aroused - Peaked - Climaxed - Ecstatic
None -/- 13/16 26/32 52/64 104/128
Aroused -/- 3/4 14/18 28/36 56/72
Peaked -/- -/- 4/5 16/20 32/40

Nice to see those non-entry's for states of arousal lower than the current one. Having numbers for those confused me on the website.

After the check is made, the partner’s Arousal is changed to fit the highest DC the character achieved. They may resist this change by rolling a Fortitude save against a DC based on the new arousal state (see Table X-XX2), adding an Unwilling bonus where applicable. If successful, they remain in their current state and no additional arousal is gained.

Table X-XX2: Resisting Arousal States
Rise to Aroused DC 10
Rise to Peaked DC 15
Rise to Climaxed DC 20
Rise to Estacy DC 25

Will there be options (feats, spells, etc) to let the character making the successful Prowess check raise the DC here? This seems like a good place for such things.

If at any time a character fails to make the required roll to keep the their partner in the aroused state whilst they are already aroused or greater, the partner is entitled to a Fortitude save to avoid loosing all their arousal (and loosing their erection or drying up) and simply reside to aroused instead. This check is also made if sexual congress or any other prowess roll is interupted suddenly.

Table X-XX?: DCs to Avoid Total Arousal Loss
DC 0* - During Intercourse
DC 5 - During Oral Sex or Masturbation
DC 10 - During Other Foreplay
DC 15 - Unusual circumstances (parents walking in)
DC 20 - "I have just be stabbed by a sword!"

What I said for the last section applies here too, generally speaking. Perhaps a feat to grant a bonus to that Fort save, or one that, owing to how desire is somewhat a mental state, makes it a Will save (as if it was an exotic Prowess check), etc.

Every minute spent in climax or estacy indicates the partner sustained some form of orgasm.

So the results of the Prowess check also last for a full ten rounds? I can see why this is a point of contention. Just to clarify, spending those consecutive ten rounds (one minute) in Climax or Ecstacy only counts as one single sexual release, correct? So a character who has their Climax DC reached 3 times consecutively has had three full-minute orgasms, not 30 smaller orgasms.

This allows the partner to aquire gratification (a basic measure of pleasure gained from the encounter). This is a running figure and is often totaled at the end of the encounter.

I might be nitpicking just a tad bit too much, but I assume the "encounter ends" means that no more Prowess checks are being made, correct? Or is it more open, since a pair who copulated for a while, then fell asleep when they were done, and then did it again when they awoke, could conceivably all be seen as one long sexual encounter, so gratification would be totalled together for that night and morning in that sense.

Gratification is based upon the state of the partner and the number of rounds they have been sustained in that state. See Table X-XX3.

So its rounds? But assuming that orgasms last a full ten rounds (since you can only make a Prowess check that often), then that means that gratification will always be inherently high (and the table for what that means will thus have to be revised), since even a mild orgasm will last ten rounds, and thus be gratification 10.

After the first minute spent in Climax or Ecstasy, each further minute spent in Climax does one point of temporary Wisdom damage; each minute spent Ecstatic does 1d3 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

No more Will save to avoid that? Interesting.

When a partner is using a Penetrative technique against them, characters always make a Prowess check back, if only by virtue of just lying there.

Another example that seems to violate the "only one check per minute and at a time" part from above.

In the minutes in which the check is made against them, they must make a Prowess check back despite their non-active involvement. If they do not add their rank bonus to this, it is considered a free action and does not impose any penalties against any other checks they may wish to make.

Shouldn't that be "any other Prowess checks (against other partners)"? I find it hard to believe that a character being penetrated, and thus making a free CHA check back, has no penalty for that to any action they may undertake that round. :) I know I'm nitpicking terms here, but someone has to.

Only basic prowess proficinces can be used to physically arouse a partner.

This seems slightly odd. You can't use exotic dancing to arouse a partner? People go to clubs for the very purpose of having their physical state shifted from None to Aroused (and often times higher than that).

Rules for using exotic proficiences are covered below. Not all Prowess techniques have equal application – some are best used to initially Arouse a partner

...which seems to contradict what was just said...

whilst others are best for bringing them to Climax. Switching techniques is possible during the 10 rounds, but the characters involved may not add their prowess bonus to any check based off that minute.

This seems a bit too specific given that the ways you can use the exotic arousal techniques are all caught under the skill Prowess (Exotic). That means that they have proficiency in all the exotic forms just as well, so switching techniques shouldn't be a problem.

Assuming I was wrong above and you do actually take different ranks in the different sub-techniques (i.e. Prowess (exotic dancing) vs Prowess (masturbation), etc.) then I would advocate that, when switching techniques in the same ten-round span, you can keep your bonus if you have ranks in both the techniques that you are shifting from and to.

One free position switch is allowed between each minute of prowess checks. Listed below are the modifiers to the DC for bringing a partner to different levels of arousal (as mentioned under circumstantial modifiers), based on groups of techniques.

Table X-XX?: Technique Suitability
Group - Aroused / Peaked / Climaxed / Ecstatic DC modifiers
Caressing - Aroused +0 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +10 / Ecstatic +10
Masturbation - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +2 / Ecstatic +5
Oral - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +2 / Ecstatic +5
Penetrative - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Sodomy - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Toys - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0

Sodomy seems slightly out of place here, as its based on receiving it (which I interpret to mean its very much like masturbating in that you're using it to feel pleasure yourself, since the other person is penetrating you), so you can't really use that on your partner (unless that includes knowing just when to clench and unclench those muscles). Ditto for masturbating, since touching your partner like that counts as caressing, not masturbating. All of this assumes that you must still declare what you're specifically doing, since the ranks of Prowess are themselves so broad (or I was wrong in my initial assumption).

--It is possible to use exotic prowess checks on more than one person and unless otherwise noted, the procedure is the same.

The implication here is that you can't use normal Prowess checks on more than one person...which seems somewhat conflicted above.

Mental Arousal is often easier at first, but extremely difficult to get high results. All of the usual circumstantial modifiers for prowess also apply to exotic prowess rolls. The following table lists the progression of mental arousal using exotic prowess:

Table X-XX: Mental Arousal DCs
Current \ Target None Horny Lustful Delierious
None <10/<15 10/15 50/55 90/95
Horny <1/<5 1/5 30/35 70/75
Lustful <1/<5 1/5 10/15 50/55

Table X-XX: Resisting Mental Arousal
Rise to Horny DC 10
Rise to Lustful DC 20
Rise to Delierious DC 30

Ditto for what I said before about having feats, spells, etc. for adding or subtracting modifiers here. You guys probably already have these, but I just wanted to mention it anyway.

One last thing I wanted to toss out there is that under the section detailing specific races and sex, Tieflings got an entry, but Aasimars didn't. That should, IMHO, be fixed. There's no being touched like a plantouched, after all. ;)
 
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Hey Alzrius... welcome to the team. Glad to have ya.

I'll let VVrayven answer your questions on Prowess, as she definitely is the one who knows best.

As far as feats go, there might very well be something like that soon. Bear in mind that anything relying on the core mechanics is in an early draft stage. Of course that is just about everything except flavor text. The other stuff is mainly on the site for reference, so you don't have to sift through various downloads.

Same goes for the race notes. Aasimars should be added. I simply copied things over from the 0.5 Word document for now. If you have any ideas for Aasimars (or any other race), just email me and I'll put it up.

I'll get going on getting Prowess 1.4 onto the site.
 

Wow. Lots of stuff to clarify. I guess we need even clearer and more concise text with a lot more examples.

This section strikes me as slightly unclear...

Yes, you get one prof for each rank you have in the skill. I'll clear up the language here.

This may be opening up a new complication, but should that hold true when using a Prowess check against onesself? Unless...

Soft focus rules (which is our quick resolution system) allows for a situation similar to taking 10 or 20 and works well, plus we indicate that you don't ALWAYS need to roll for stuff (or will in the mechanics opening). That aside, men may always be able to climax, but about one third of all women can't or have a lot of trouble when they masturbate. And, if you roll enough (say ten minutes, ten rolls) even a rank 0 person is 50% likely to hit their DC (which are all below 20). Hmmm except that with Masturbation +2... Rank zero women find it impossible without circumstantial help. (I'll look into this, DbS ideas?, maybe a KNOW YOURSELF bonus?)

Maybe its me, but those two sentences seem a tad bit redundant.

Sure. ;)

Does this allow for the possibility that the one doing the grappling can also make the check?

This is a point of contention for me at the moment. When we make the NC rules I'll get back to this. My gut says that yes, this should be possible and it is always a possibility that someone else is doing the grappling.

This seems to indicate that you can make more than one Prowess check at a time, and that you can make more than just one Prowess check per minute, which isn't what the above sentences say. Confusing.

You can. You can't make more than one one same partner or exceed your limit. I'll see if I can clear these lines up.

Nice to see those non-entry's for states of arousal lower than the current one. Having numbers for those confused me on the website.

Well... Actually they are still there, you just can't see them. What happens for instance if you get a DC 2 on a female partner that is peaked? Hmmm? Well she drops to Aroused is what happens. I do need to clarify this though.

Will there be options (feats, spells, etc) to let the character making the successful Prowess check raise the DC here? This seems like a good place for such things.

Yes there will be. They will be places in the feats section and spells sections respectively. No, common people cannot change these DCs. There are also some Carnal Arts that will aid in this area when we get back around to fixing them for v1.4.

What I said for the last section applies here too, generally speaking. Perhaps a feat to grant a bonus to that Fort save, or one that, owing to how desire is somewhat a mental state, makes it a Will save (as if it was an exotic Prowess check), etc.

I think the "Avoid Total Arousal Loss" table is quite generous enough and I don't anticipate ANY bonuses being used with it. It is a Fort save because all physical arousal is tied to the body (but it is a point I will look at). This mechanic will almost NEVER be used and it is really in there to fix a small problem in the mechanics. I will clarify the text though.

So the results of the Prowess check also last for a full ten rounds? I can see why this is a point of contention. Just to clarify, spending those consecutive ten rounds (one minute) in Climax or Ecstacy only counts as one single sexual release, correct? So a character who has their Climax DC reached 3 times consecutively has had three full-minute orgasms, not 30 smaller orgasms.

You speak of a flavor text issue. Climax does not mean ONE orgasm. Nor does it imply many. One minute of climax does not imply the orgasm lasted a minute, merely the status condition did. All of that is just flavor text. Climax means a pleasurable state in which a climax or climax-like event occured. If a woman had 3 consecutive climax minutes, it might mean see just had three orgasms one minute apart or perhaps she had thirty very quick ones. The end result is all flavor and doesn't effect the system at all. And yes, the results of a Prowess check last a full ten rounds, however, peaked will end after the next round if it is not maintained (see the definition of peaked). The prowess effects length were never a point of contention, only the length of the time segement used.

I might be nitpicking just a tad bit too much, but I assume the "encounter ends" means that no more Prowess checks are being made, correct? Or is it more open, since a pair who copulated for a while, then fell asleep when they were done, and then did it again when they awoke, could conceivably all be seen as one long sexual encounter, so gratification would be totalled together for that night and morning in that sense.

DM discression. Typically it means the session is over with. If I make love for an hour then cuddled for twenty minues only to start again, I'd call that one session. If I slept over night, I'd call the night and day two different ones.

So its rounds? But assuming that orgasms last a full ten rounds (since you can only make a Prowess check that often), then that means that gratification will always be inherently high (and the table for what that means will thus have to be revised), since even a mild orgasm will last ten rounds, and thus be gratification 10.

A minor typo, it should be minutes. ;)

No more Will save to avoid that? Interesting.

Nope. There is no way to scale it right. So, no save.

Another example that seems to violate the "only one check per minute and at a time" part from above.

Not really, but the language is unclear. I'll see what I can do.

Shouldn't that be "any other Prowess checks (against other partners)"?

Sure. ;)

This seems slightly odd. You can't use exotic dancing to arouse a partner? People go to clubs for the very purpose of having their physical state shifted from None to Aroused (and often times higher than that).

Right. You can't! However, you can induce the Mental Arousal: Horny which in turn can physically arouse you all on it's own...

...which seems to contradict what was just said...

Hmm perhaps. I'm not confused on it, perhaps: Rules for using exotic proficiences are covered below. Not all Basic Prowess techniques have equal application – some are best used to initially Arouse a partner.

This seems a bit too specific given that the ways you can use the exotic arousal techniques are all caught under the skill Prowess (Exotic). That means that they have proficiency in all the exotic forms just as well, so switching techniques shouldn't be a problem.

Ah-hah! No here is a good idea brewing. Okay, you are wrong, you do take specific profs like (lap dance) and the like, was this unclear above? However, the reason you can't switch is based on the fact that if you are using basic techs, then the DC modifiers change from say Masturbation to Intercourse! However, I believe you should be able to switch between exotic profs without penalty. I'll add it to the list of differences section.

Sodomy seems slightly out of place here, as its based on receiving it (which I interpret to mean its very much like masturbating in that you're using it to feel pleasure yourself, since the other person is penetrating you), so you can't really use that on your partner (unless that includes knowing just when to clench and unclench those muscles). Ditto for masturbating, since touching your partner like that counts as caressing, not masturbating. All of this assumes that you must still declare what you're specifically doing, since the ranks of Prowess are themselves so broad (or I was wrong in my initial assumption).

You are wrong, you have to take specific profs, but this is a point of debate with DbS, I'll get back to you.

The implication here is that you can't use normal Prowess checks on more than one person...which seems somewhat conflicted above.

I'll fix the language.

Ditto for what I said before about having feats, spells, etc. for adding or subtracting modifiers here. You guys probably already have these, but I just wanted to mention it anyway.

See above. Well, after all this shredding I think I need to rewrite some stuff for clarity. I'll get 1.4a out today and we'll work from there...
 

I hate to go nitpicky, but now is the eleventh hour and it must be done. I think a couple key revision ideas are needed to finalize our Prowess mechanics.

The first issue (as loathe as I am to bring it up again): On technuqie suitability. Climax DC for a masturbating female is at a +2 right now? This isn't right. Most women find it easier to climax while masturbating than with intercourse. Also, women can't achieve climax, DC 22, if they have zero or one rank just by masturbating... So, I've tweaked some numbers.

The second issue: Sodomy needs to have two ends, if for no other reason then to clear up confusion. In fact, I think all the profs need some descriptor text to clarify things.

Third: We need bigtime examples. I mean at least three long and complex examples...

So here is the version of Prowess 1.4a that is my take on things. Everyone speak as you will. DbS, what do you think? Sorn: please update the whole thing when we are done. Several minor changes have been made that might miss a causual glance. ;)

THE PROWESS SKILL v1.4a

This skill is in addition to the skills normally available to characters, as found in Chapter 3 of the PHB.

PROWESS (Cha)
Use this skill to bewilder your sexual partners with an array of exotic techniques. Prowess is a class skill for all characters.

As with the Perform skill, each rank in Prowess grants you a sexual technique, either basic or exotic, within which you can apply your rank bonus to checks - you may not apply your Prowess bonus to any application for which you do not have the appropriate technique.

The sexual techniques are listed below organized into groups for ease of use. If the group is open-ended (etc is listed), you are free to design your own additions, providing they remain within the nature of those preceding it. For example, three ranks in prowess could allow a character to be proficient with Masturbation: Male, Penetrative: Matrimonial, and DSM: Domination. These three techniques would allow the character to add their +3 rank bonus to a Prowess check; all other techniques would be with a +0 instead.

Basic Proficiencies:
Caress (By type - Breasts, Erotic Massage, Stroking etc.)
Masturbation (Male, Female)
Oral (Cunnilingus, Fellatio)
Penetrative (By position - Cross, Frontal, Half-facing, Inverted, Matrimonial, Negresse, Rear, Riding, Scissors, Standing etc.)
Sodomy (Receiving, Penetrative)
Toys (By item - Dildos, Wands, Wizards' Staffs, etc.)

Exotic Proficiencies:
Bondage (By type - Contortion, Hanging, Inverted, Ties etc.)
DSM (Domination, Submission)
Pillow Talk (Dirty, Sweet, Poetic)
Erotic Dance (Lapdance, Poledance, Striptease, etc.)

Caressing refers to all manner of physical touches and brushes. Only a broad group or sensitive area should be allowed for a sexual technique. Masturbation refers to manipulating the sexual organs of the listed gender and some limited stroking of erogenous zones. Oral focuses on one of two types of oral sex. Penetration refers to all acts in which intercourse is involved. The person being penetrated can use their skills to please the thruster back or they can just lie there and pursue a different technique (see Rules below). Sodomy is split into two categories: receiving which pleasures the thruster and penetrative, which pleasures the receiver. Toys is similar to masturbation but involves some other object.

Special: Regardless of circumstances, it is impossible to take 10 or take 20 on a Prowess check, due to its unpredictable nature. There is a way to "take your time" with a prowess check, see the Soft Focus Rules on pg XX.

THE PROWESS CHECK

Performing a Prowess check on someone (including yourself) requires 10 rounds (one full minute) to execute successfully. A single prowess check is made for the entire minute. If the character is interrupted during this time and unable to complete the act, the attempt automatically fails and the minute must be started over. Each round of the prowess check is considered a miscellaneous full-round action incurring attacks of opportunity. If an attack of opportunity hits you, the damage inflicted is counted as a penalty to your prowess check and all such modifiers are cumulative. Unless specifically stated otherwise, Prowess checks can only be made against an Unwilling partner if they are grappled, helpless or immobile. Grappled targets must be restrained for the entire 10 rounds or the prowess check is interrupted.

It is possible to make multiple Prowess checks as the same full-minute action; if your character wishes to do so, a penalty of -4 per additional prowess check is applied to all checks. You cannot make more simultaneous checks than (1+Dex bonus) at any time, unless otherwise stated. In addition, the multiple prowess actions must be possible (a male cannot use a penetrative technique on more than one person for example).

<<SIDEBAR - Rounds vs. Minutes: Sexual encounters generally don't need to be handled in combat rounds. This system assumes that all actions take place uniformly in one minute of time. There are no rules present for switching partners 5 rounds into an encounter or the like. If situations like this arise, the DM has final word on what is possible and what is not. If two people engage in sexual congress during a combat, the DM decides how the minute time keeping should proceed. Spells and other Prowess modifying effects that have been active for at least 5 rounds of the check should have their full effect on the roll. The golden rule is that prowess checks CANNOT overlap just as the minute time segments cannot overlap. Consider the sexual time segment to be like a combat round, just as you can't split your standard or move-equivalent actions up, you cannot split up your minute-long prowess minute either. <End Sidebar>>

Prowess checks are resolved for a single target at the end of the full minute in which they are completed. If multiple prowess checks are used on a single partner, the 10 rounds must be simultaneous. Consider sexual encounters to be working time segments of one minute, not rounds. Individual rounds are not used, only a single minute of effort. Only ONE prowess RESULT can affect a single person at any given time. If multiple checks affect the same target, each prowess check is rolled off the target's current state of arousal and physical condition. The highest successful arousal increase is used as the base roll. If another participant succeeds the DC necessary to raise the target's arousal or keep it at its current level, the base roll receives a +2 synergy bonus. If the aiding participant fails their roll to maintain arousal, then the base roll suffers a -2 circumstance penalty.

When making a Prowess check, you may apply as much or as little of your rank bonus as you desire, but the declaration must be made BEFORE you make the roll. Consult the table below for DCs according to your partner's present condition, where the numbers on the left represent a male partner, and the ones on the right a female one.

Table X-XX: Arousal DCs
Current Arousal - None - Aroused - Peaked - Climaxed - Ecstatic
None -/- 13/16 26/32 52/64 104/128
Aroused -/- 3/4 14/18 28/36 56/72
Peaked -/- -/- 4/5 16/20 32/40

After the check is made, the partner's Arousal is changed to fit the highest DC the character achieved. If the roll fails to meet any listed DC, then the prowess check failed, and their partner looses one level of arousal. A partner may resist a rise in arousal by rolling a Fortitude save against a DC based on the new arousal state (see Table X-XX2), adding an Unwilling bonus where applicable. If successful, they remain in their current state and no additional arousal is gained.

Table X-XX2: Resisting Arousal States
Rise to Aroused DC 10
Rise to Peaked DC 15
Rise to Climaxed DC 20
Rise to Ecstasy DC 25

If a sexual congress is interrupted, all prowess rolls are instantly considered to have failed. Any time a failed prowess roll causes the character to loose all of their arousal (i.e. move from Aroused Status to none at all), they may make a Fortitude to stay in the Aroused state and thus prevent the loss on an erection or "drying up". The DC of this check is dependant upon how prowess roll failed. Use the highest DC available. For instance, if a couple's secret outdoor oral sex encounter was interrupted by a person walking by, but they continued anyway, both checks would fail due to the interruption the save would be DC 15. If however, no one walked by and the partner giving the oral sex simply failed a roll, the save would be DC 5.

Table X-XX?: DCs to Avoid Total Arousal Loss
DC 0* - Inept Check: During Intercourse
DC 5 - Inept Check: During Oral Sex or Masturbation
DC 10 - Inept Check: During Other Foreplay
DC 15 - Interruption: Unusual circumstances (parents walking in)
DC 20 - Interruption: "I have just be stabbed by a sword!"

*Note is the modified DC is zero or below and the partner has a positive Fortitude save, no roll is required and is considered and instant success.

Every minute spent in climax or ecstasy indicates the partner sustained some form of orgasm. This could be a single orgasm, a continuous stream of them, or perhaps just a really pleasurable state. This pleasure allows the partner to acquire gratification (a basic measure of pleasure gained from the encounter). This is a running figure and is often totaled at the end of the sexual encounter (when all sexual activity has stopped for a moderate amount of time). Gratification is based upon the state of the partner and the number of minutes they have been sustained in that state. See Table X-XX3.

It is possible to keep a partner in Climax or Ecstasy for more than one minute, although this may result in adverse effects (see Status Conditions for more details). In order to do so, use the DCs listed in Table X-XX3. If the DC for Climax is not sustained, male characters lose all arousal; female characters reside to Aroused instead. After the first minute spent in Climax or Ecstasy, each further minute spent in Climax does one point of temporary Wisdom damage; each minute spent Ecstatic does 1d3 points of temporary Wisdom damage.

Table X-XX3: Extended Climax DCs
Round - Climax DC//Grat - Ecstasy DC//Grat
1st 16/20**//1 32/40**//2
2nd 24/25//2 48/50//4
3rd 32/30//3 64/60//6
4th 40/35//4 80/70//8
5th 48/40//5 96/80//10*

*Repeat numerical pattern ad infinitum. Numbers on left are male DCs, on right female DCs.
**Typical values for arising from Peaked.
Gratification values are cumulative - take those from each minute of Climax or Ecstasy.

When a partner is using a Penetrative technique against them, characters always make a Prowess check back, if only by virtue of just lying there (this is regardless of whether or not the partner wishes to). If they do not add their rank bonus to this reflexive roll, it is considered a free action and does not impose any penalties against any other prowess checks they may wish to make that minute, or other actions that are not impeded by the sexual activity.

TECHNIQUE SUITABILITY

Only basic prowess proficiencies can be used to physically arouse a partner. Exotic proficiencies are used to induce mental arousal and are covered later. Not all Prowess techniques have equal application - some are best used to initially Arouse a partner, whilst others are best for bringing them to Climax. Switching techniques is possible during the same minute of sexual activity, but the highest DC modifiers must be used. One free position switch is allowed between each minute of prowess checks. Listed below are the modifiers to the DC for bringing a partner to different levels of arousal (as mentioned under circumstantial modifiers).

Table X-XX?: Technique Suitability
Group - Aroused / Peaked / Climaxed / Ecstatic DC modifiers
Caressing - Aroused +0 / Peaked +5 / Climaxed +10 / Ecstatic +15
Masturbation - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +5
Oral - Aroused +2 / Peaked +0 / Climaxed +2 / Ecstatic +5
Penetrative - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Sodomy - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0
Toys - Aroused +10 / Peaked +2 / Climaxed +0 / Ecstatic +0

EXOTIC PROWESS TECHNIQUES
Exotic proficiencies are not used to physically arouse a partner; rather they are used to raise the partner's mental arousal level. The procedure for using exotic prowess is identical to that of normal prowess rolls, with the following exceptions:

--A partner resists mental arousal with their Will save instead of their Fortitude save.

--It is possible to use exotic prowess to mentally aroused more than the usual number of people. These circumstances listed individually, otherwise use the standard rules.

Mental Arousal is often easier at first, but extremely difficult to get high results. All of the usual circumstantial modifiers for prowess also apply to exotic prowess rolls. The following table lists the progression of mental arousal using exotic prowess:

Table X-XX: Mental Arousal DCs
Current \ Target None Horny Lustful Delirious
None <10/<15 10/15 50/55 90/95
Horny <1/<5 1/5 30/35 70/75
Lustful <1/<5 1/5 10/15 50/55

Table X-XX: Resisting Mental Arousal
Rise to Horny DC 10
Rise to Lustful DC 20
Rise to Delirious DC 30

Bondage: 5 or more ranks in Use Rope provides +2 synergy bonus to this skill. Subjects that are bound may also be pleasured using normal prowess checks after a successful (minimum DC 10) use of this exotic technique. If this is done, your partner continues to get the benefit from all kinks associated with bondage.

DSM: 5 or more ranks in intimidate grants a +2 synergy bonus to domination checks. 5 or more ranks in sense motive grants a +2 synergy bonus to submission checks. Because of the focus required for this skill, it is very difficult to use with multiple partners and all penalties for doing so are doubled. The maximum number of people that can be affected at a time with this proficiency is equal to your charisma modifier +1. Subjects that are dominated or turned on by your submission may also be pleasured using normal prowess checks after a successful (minimum DC 10) use of this exotic technique. If this is done, your partner continues to get the benefit from all kinks associated with DSM.

Pillow Talk: 5 or more ranks in bluff or diplomacy grants a +2 synergy bonus to pillow talk checks (these bonuses stack).

Erotic Dance: 5 or more ranks in Perform (with dance) grants a +2 synergy bonus to erotic dance. Erotic dance can be used on a large number of people. Virtually anyone who is within 30ft of the dancer and can see her well can be affected, they gain a +2 bonus to their Will saves. If the dancer focuses on a single person, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus to her check.

---END---
 

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