D&D 5E Advanced 5th edition Dungeons & Dragons!

[Nebulous]

This is just for fun. I like 5th edition, but there's still some things I would change.
So let's say in some alternate universe that there WAS an updated 5e.

What would you want to see? For me, for one, I find the layout of the
5th edition book very hard to navigate through. I can't find what I need
quickly except for alphabetical spells. My players all say the same thing,
and they're a clever bunch.

I would like to see unique spell lists for the Illusionist and Necromancer and some other
speciality wizards. Give them at least one spell per level that no other class can
duplicate. Not a class ability but an actual spell.

Ramp up monster toughness and reintroduce the Bloodied condition from 4e.

Clean up the Stealth and Hiding and Perception and Invisibility and get rid of this
ambiguity stuff.

Add some kind of basic IDEA for at least creating/buying/selling low level magic items,
at least consumables up to 3rd level. Or better, just add a whole DMG chapter explaining
how to incorporate it.

I sort of miss Touch AC from 3e, it just makes sense logically.

Redo Inspiration so that it's a fun mechanic. After 2.5 years of playing 5e, we all
consistently forget about it constantly.


I guess what is cool, and has been mentioned in other threads, that these can all
be house ruled in fairly easily. Well, adding new spell and new monster abilities isn't
easy per say, and coming up with a balanced magic item cost system would take some
tinkering.

There's probably more I'd like to see but those sprang to mind.

 

[Sacrosanct]

There is a thread currently going on with this exact same topic. Heck, it's even in the top 5 most recently responded threads.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?524932-D-amp-D-5-5e-Your-wish-for-5-5e-update

 

[Tony Vargas]

So let's say in some alternate universe that there WAS an updated 5e.

Updated to what end? Has the classic game changed due to some sort of time-travel accident, such that 5e no longer emulates it adequately? Is there rampant anti-5e edition warring in this alternate universe? Was some lunatic clown in an orange fright wig elected president (of Hasbro, by the shareholders, I mean, obviously)?

What would you want to see?

A publication date a good 10 years after the release of the previous edition of the same book.

For me, for one, I find the layout of the
5th edition book very hard to navigate through.

Try just reading through it, front-to-back. It's not so bad.

I can't find what I need
quickly except for alphabetical spells.[.quote] Well, those are the only things you might actually have to look up. All the classes use them, everything else in a monster stat block is spelled(npi) out right there in the block.

I would like to see unique spell lists for the Illusionist and Necromancer and some other
speciality wizards. Give them at least one spell per level that no other class can
duplicate. Not a class ability but an actual spell.

The Wizard already has more unique spells than any other class, now it's sub-classes deserve unique spells?

Ramp up monster toughness and reintroduce the Bloodied condition from 4e.

Bloodied exists (inevitably, integer division by 2) in all but name, and in the 'describing damage' side-bar. Just call it 'bloodied' (or 'down about half') everyone will know what you mean, and only the very occasional h4ter will try to strangle you for it.

Clean up the Stealth and Hiding and Perception and Invisibility and get rid of this
ambiguity stuff.

Because DMs hate being Empowered.

Add some kind of basic IDEA for at least creating/buying/selling low level magic items,
at least consumables up to 3rd level. Or better, just add a whole DMG chapter explaining
how to incorporate it.

I sort of miss Touch AC from 3e, it just makes sense logically.

It did make tons of logical sense. It was also pretty broken in the hands of anyone other than a half-BAB caster and/or when attacking anyone with a high Armor or Natural Armor bonus. REF Defense from 4e worked better (though with the whole justifiable homicide caveat), a REF save would work just fine in 5e, there's just a little math because it's not just intuitively converting attack bonus to save DC by adding 10.

Redo Inspiration so that it's a fun mechanic. After 2.5 years of playing 5e, we all
consistently forget about it constantly.

If you don't find RP-carrot mechanics fun, nothing can make them fun.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Updated to what end? Has the classic game changed due to some sort of time-travel accident, such that 5e no longer emulates it adequately? Is there rampant anti-5e edition warring in this alternate universe? Was some lunatic clown in an orange fright wig elected president (of Hasbro, by the shareholders, I mean, obviously)?

Man, when did you get so snarky? lol

Seriously, though, I think he has valid points. And certainly there is room to update some aspects of 5e. I mean, come on.

Are you seriously arguing that "finding things in the books is hard" isn't a valid concern because...spells are the main thing you'd need to look up? Seriously? You don't think people need to look up...rules for things?

And how does confusingly ambiguous stealth rules empower DMs? People are commonly confused about their intent, and how they work RAW. That empowers no one.

As for Inspiration, I like "RP-carrot" mechanics fun. Inspiration specifically is a fairly dull mechanic that is too easily forgotten. I've replaced it with Action Points, that can be replenished by the DM or another player when you earn it in various ways, and players actually remember it now. Before, we had to use physical counters ala Old School Hack in a bowl on the table, or we just wouldn't remember that Inspiration exists.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This is just for fun. I like 5th edition, but there's still some things I would change.
So let's say in some alternate universe that there WAS an updated 5e.

What would you want to see?

I'd like to see more guidelines for alternate rules systems, like touch AC (ive no interest in touch ac, but i'd love to see support for it as an optional rules variant).

Guidelines in the PHB for players to improvise and gain actual benefits. In the PHB. Not the DMG.

Options similar to the Battlemaster's Superiority Dice or the Monk's ki for every non full caster class. Optional variant rules to replace spell casting for half casters with a system that lets you spend a Die/Ki to either do a maneuver type thing, or cast a spell, and basically adds maneuvers to your class spell list, if you have one.

Let players who don't like their characters functioning on the basis of distinct abilities use the standard rules, while the rest of us can have what was, for many of us, the primary thing that made us love the last edition.


Alternate monster/encounter rules that run on an xp budget, is better codified, and uses templates like brute and solo.

A set of Epic rules and options that acts as an additional layer to the rules, including guidelines for upgrading any monsters that you want to turn into epic versions of themselves.
The point here would be that you can start the game as epic characters, or become epic at a later point in your career, generally as a group/campaign decision. Like if 4e had let you give your players epic destinies at level 1, but otherwise left the player options alone.

Rules for player past level 20, that don't assume that post 20 is "epic", along with updated stats for powerful enemies that put them at a higher level. With 5e's bounded accuracy, pre-20 characters can still fight Ancient Dragons, they will just be more challenged by them, and require more planning, and perhaps even allies, to win.

well developed rules for making magic item crafting a normal part of life, without making legendary items part of that economy, necessarily. ie, you can make or buy, and sell, a pair of flying shoes or a returning throwing axe, or a wand, or a potion, but you can't simply commission Excalibur.


A lot of this could simply be added to 5e, which I think is a good thing. An Advanced DnD for 5e wouldn't need to replace standard 5e, and in fact it shouldn't do so.

Instead, it should add to it, with a solid DMG sized book of alternative rules, a reprint of the PHB with Errata and replacing the PHB Ranger with the Revised one, some clarified rules, improved formatting in some places, and maybe Halfling art that doesn't make me want to set the book on fire.

And an Advanced Encounter Builder's Handbook that acts as a Monster Manual, but that simply updates some monsters that don't work as anticipated, provides optional rules for "role" templates, including Epic templates, and updated and improved encounter building guidelines, and a section of encounters of different levels and themes that references the monsters in the book.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Man, when did you get so snarky? lol

Late '70s sometime, probably.

Brace yourself, more snark to come....

Are you seriously arguing that "finding things in the books is hard" isn't a valid concern because...spells are the main thing you'd need to look up? Seriously? You don't think people need to look up...rules for things?

What for? Chances are they're not going to be /that/ different from the last few editions, and failing that, will be ambiguous enough that you're just going to have to rule on what they actually say, or over-rule them based on the situation, anyway.
So, just skip the first two steps and rule based on the situation.

And how does confusingly ambiguous stealth rules empower DMs?

"Can he see me?" Dis-empowered DM using clearly-written stealth rules, it's a rhetorical question, the player with the +35 stealth knows he's hidden, no matter how lame that might seem under the circumstances. Empowered DM using 5e stealth rules, it's a real question that he answers however's best for his game.

Spells you have to look up, because players aren't going to let you get away with that when they blow a precious slot.

People are commonly confused about their intent, and how they work RAW. That empowers no one.

It empowers the one who decides how they're going to work.

As for Inspiration, I like "RP-carrot" mechanics fun. Inspiration specifically is a fairly dull mechanic that is too easily forgotten.

It's a bonus to the roll after the fact, once you have that option: it's pretty good.
The part I don't want to bother with is handing it out. I'm supposed to remember everyone's specific Bond/Flaw/whatever, when I can't ever remember what they're all called most of the time, and judge their acting based on it? No. Just no. And the alternative is to have players 'helping' by whining for inspiration all the time. No. Just on.

Damn, even thinking about it is annoying!

I've replaced it with Action Points, that can be replenished by the DM or another player when you earn it in various ways, and players actually remember it now. Before, we had to use physical counters ala Old School Hack in a bowl on the table, or we just wouldn't remember that Inspiration exists.

OK, as RP-carrot mechanics go, the best I ever saw was in a homebrew called Storyboard (I think they actually got it vanity published or something at some point), you got a 3x5 card at the start of each session, if you thought someone pulled off a real PR coup, you wrote down the awesome thing they did and gave it to them. You got perks for collecting them.
I mention that because of the idea of using physical tokens to track Inspiration. Great big cheery-colored d6s could be good for that, for instance. Maybe those cheesy foam ones, for instance. Having players grant the dice somehow, instead of the DM would be nice, too, since they get more involved, and the DM has enough to do without judging them.

The idea of giving an action point is also a lot more dramatic than the bonus, though, good as the bonus is, IMHO.

 

[Nebulous]

OK, as RP-carrot mechanics go, the best I ever saw was in a homebrew called Storyboard (I think they actually got it vanity published or something at some point), you got a 3x5 card at the start of each session, if you thought someone pulled off a real PR coup, you wrote down the awesome thing they did and gave it to them. You got perks for collecting them.
I mention that because of the idea of using physical tokens to track Inspiration. Great big cheery-colored d6s could be good for that, for instance. Maybe those cheesy foam ones, for instance. Having players grant the dice somehow, instead of the DM would be nice, too, since they get more involved, and the DM has enough to do without judging them.

The idea of giving an action point is also a lot more dramatic than the bonus, though, good as the bonus is, IMHO.

Something, SOMETHING has got to make a good replacement for Inspiration. Maybe a big fat visual symbol is the key. I dunno. I think ultimately it just needs to be rewritten with a better system, but what I don't know.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Late '70s sometime, probably.

Brace yourself, more snark to come....

What for? Chances are they're not going to be /that/ different from the last few editions, and failing that, will be ambiguous enough that you're just going to have to rule on what they actually say, or over-rule them based on the situation, anyway.
So, just skip the first two steps and rule based on the situation.

"Can he see me?" Dis-empowered DM using clearly-written stealth rules, it's a rhetorical question, the player with the +35 stealth knows he's hidden, no matter how lame that might seem under the circumstances. Empowered DM using 5e stealth rules, it's a real question that he answers however's best for his game.

Spells you have to look up, because players aren't going to let you get away with that when they blow a precious slot.

It empowers the one who decides how they're going to work.

It's a bonus to the roll after the fact, once you have that option: it's pretty good.
The part I don't want to bother with is handing it out. I'm supposed to remember everyone's specific Bond/Flaw/whatever, when I can't ever remember what they're all called most of the time, and judge their acting based on it? No. Just no. And the alternative is to have players 'helping' by whining for inspiration all the time. No. Just on.

Damn, even thinking about it is annoying!

OK, as RP-carrot mechanics go, the best I ever saw was in a homebrew called Storyboard (I think they actually got it vanity published or something at some point), you got a 3x5 card at the start of each session, if you thought someone pulled off a real PR coup, you wrote down the awesome thing they did and gave it to them. You got perks for collecting them.
I mention that because of the idea of using physical tokens to track Inspiration. Great big cheery-colored d6s could be good for that, for instance. Maybe those cheesy foam ones, for instance. Having players grant the dice somehow, instead of the DM would be nice, too, since they get more involved, and the DM has enough to do without judging them.

The idea of giving an action point is also a lot more dramatic than the bonus, though, good as the bonus is, IMHO.

Your points about looking things up only work for experienced DMs. You know this edition has tons of new DMs, right?

And even experienced groups aren't always ok with the DM just making it up during play, so no, that doesn't work. And there is no reason to not make the rules easier to find.

And clarified rules don't mean that the player with a 35 roll knows he is hidden no matter what. That is just not an accurate conclusion. I don't even know why you would think that. Knowing how the basic mechanics of hiding doesn't mean the circumstantial nature of stealth is out of the DM's hands. It just means the players know about what to expect, and can try to plan for it.

Unclear rules don't empower the DM. The DM that is just making it up without reference to the actual rules would be doing that anyway. That DM did that in 4e, too. And will do so in 6e, if that happens.

Meanwhile, DMs who would rather not design the game they are trying to play have to kludge something together and hope it doesn't bite them in the ass later. Really empowering. /s

Inspiration: The Old School Hack system lets players reward eachother with action points (or hero points, or whatever they call them in that system). Having it be a thing players start with 1 or 2 of, and can gain more of/gain back by playing into their backgrounds and backstory works well because it's just easier to remember that the system exists, but requires little to no input from a DM that doesn't want to be bothered about it.

My point, though, was that there are different RP carrot systems, so it's not accurate to say that if you don't like Inspiration it's because you don't like RP carrot systems.

 

[Ratskinner]

OK, as RP-carrot mechanics go, the best I ever saw was in a homebrew called Storyboard (I think they actually got it vanity published or something at some point), you got a 3x5 card at the start of each session, if you thought someone pulled off a real PR coup, you wrote down the awesome thing they did and gave it to them. You got perks for collecting them.
I mention that because of the idea of using physical tokens to track Inspiration. Great big cheery-colored d6s could be good for that, for instance. Maybe those cheesy foam ones, for instance. Having players grant the dice somehow, instead of the DM would be nice, too, since they get more involved, and the DM has enough to do without judging them.

The idea of giving an action point is also a lot more dramatic than the bonus, though, good as the bonus is, IMHO.

My personal favorite carrot mechanic (maybe not RP, strictly) is the "Awesome Points" from Old School Hack.

There's a bowl of them on the table (IIRC, 2/player to start). Whenever you see somebody pull off something awesome, you can give them one. You can spend them for a bonus or to charge up some abilities, and mark XP for spending it. On the DM side, you put more in the bowl for making things tougher. Recharge a Breath Weapon, add 2 AP. Add another wave, add 3 AP.

Combined with a relatively free-form and simple combat system, they did a LOT to create "awesome" combat, and way more efficiently than 4e's rules did. Plus, your group gets to encourage whatever it finds awesome. (Aside from a rule like: going into combat without armor earns 2 AP.)

 

[Hathorym]

I guess what is cool, and has been mentioned in other threads, that these can all
be house ruled in fairly easily. Well, adding new spell and new monster abilities isn't
easy per say, and coming up with a balanced magic item cost system would take some
tinkering.

Saying you don't want to homebrew because it's hard is not a defensible position.

But do you want to know what can be done? Making a post in one of the communities about what you want to put in your game and that you are unsure how to approach it. 9 times out of 10, you'll get a theorycrafter or homebrewer jumping on that thread quick as nothing else. You'll even be given options, advice, and discussion on how you could go about it.

You don't need a new edition for that. You just need to use the resources that are available to us all. It's a great community and we love doing what we do. Ask, receive, thank, add it to your game.