Advanced Class Codex by Green Ronin

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I do like Green Ronin, and I do buy PDFs, but I won't disagree that there's something more satisfying to me about hard copies. When the Advanced Race Codex eventually comes out on paper (and hopefully it will), I will be first in line. In the interim, I'll buy the PDFs of interest piecemeal.

Is there any possibility of a print-if-we-get-the-preorders model, or is there too much concern that folks would cancel and leave GR holding the bag?

 

[JoeGKushner]

I do like Green Ronin, and I do buy PDFs, but I won't disagree that there's something more satisfying to me about hard copies. When the Advanced Race Codex eventually comes out on paper (and hopefully it will), I will be first in line. In the interim, I'll buy the PDFs of interest piecemeal.

Is there any possibility of a print-if-we-get-the-preorders model, or is there too much concern that folks would cancel and leave GR holding the bag?

Heck, maybe they could hold it hostage or something? Seems like it's worked for a few others as well.

 

[Twowolves]

Mutants & Masterminds, True20, and Blue Rose are not d20 products. They use the OGL, so they are related, but they are stand-alone games. You may see them as "niche-y", but all of them have been outselling d20 by a large margin.

So, True20 is not d20? Ooookay... but it still is not D&D, so my point is valid. They are stand alone game systems, not support for D&D. I don't doubt that M&M sells like hotcakes. I own everything for it and love it, but it's not support for D&D, which was my point (which was actually JoeGK's point).

The Osseum debacle certainly did have an effect on us, but it's not the reason we've been doing more M&M and True20 than d20. If d20 was selling better, we'd do more. It's that simply.

Ok, so not a printer. I do remember something about GR printing taking the slow boat from China or some such, so I confabulated. But in either case, if you are selling product, d20 or OGL or whathaveyou, is it still the "sluggish economy"? I am not privy to the "state of d20 in 2006" in the same manner as Mr Pramas is, but if it's what sells vs what doesn't, that's certainly understandable and another matter entirely than saying "no one is buying anything, no matter what it is".

As far as PDF goes, I have only ever bought one product as a PDF, and that was only because it was the only way to get it b/c it was out of print and no more printings were planned. I buy a lot of books, and quite a few from GR, but I do not ever intend to buy another PDF. I would really think it a shame if all independant publishers went so heavily into PDFs and left the print world behind, because it would essentially leave ME behind.

 

[Nellisir]

As far as PDF goes, I have only ever bought one product as a PDF, and that was only because it was the only way to get it b/c it was out of print and no more printings were planned. I buy a lot of books, and quite a few from GR, but I do not ever intend to buy another PDF. I would really think it a shame if all independant publishers went so heavily into PDFs and left the print world behind, because it would essentially leave ME behind.

PDF is (much) cheaper than print.

Green Ronin's experience has shown that X pdf sales translates to X times 10 print sales (10...5...74...lets just go with it for sake of example).

Green Ronin's experience has also shown that PDF sales do not significantly impact print sales, but do predict them.

So, going pdf first makes far more sense than jumping straight to print in any format.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Aus_Snow]

As Chris put it (in a thread that has probably been swept away), they aren't operating under the assumption that everyone who buys PDFs buys print, or vice versa. But there is a correlation between how many aggregate buyers there are of a pdf product an dthe same product in print.

I agree that some people (OK, *most*.. I believe) would buy one or the other - but then, if they only want the pdf, they won't bother to buy the book that came out because enough people - inlcuding them - bought the pdf, and if they don't buy the pdf because they only want the book, they'll not have it. :\

Given that more people buy print products, I wonder how many of them (well.. us) are willing to buy a product in both formats.

I'm not, for example.


edit --- but I would've gone for a preorder option, had there been one. . .

 

[Garnfellow]

Sluggish economy? I hate to hijack a thread, but what reality are you living in where the US economy is "sluggish"? Lowest unemployment rate in 30 years, Dow over 11,000, housing just now slowing after a tremendous expansion, more tax revenue every year, 18 straight quarters of growth.... how is the economy "sluggish"??

Well, I am not going to engage you in a long, drawn-out debate on the economy, as it is largely off-topic and particularly since you seem to have an ideological axe to grind. But since you obliquely called me a liar, and since you keep banging your little drum by citing "sluggish economy" in every one of your posts, here's the last thing I'll write on the subject: a comprehensive analysis of the current US economy is a extremely complex undertaking that must take into account a multitude of often conflicting data points, and is almost impossible to do with perfect clarity in real time. Professional economists disagree over the interpretation of common economic indicators every day of the week. For example, consumer spending was up 0.6 percent in April. Doesn't that mean the economy is strong? Well, maybe, but it appears that much of that increase was due to high gas prices.

While I must admit I did casually throw out the phrase "sluggish economy," I don't think you can be readily trumpeting that everything is hunky dory, either. Sluggish doesn't mean recessive much less depressive, but I probably should have wrote "uncertain economy," since the best anyone can say right now is that we are getting some very mixed signals regarding the health of the economy. Some signs are very promising, some are rather worrisome. If you want to see that glass as half full, great for you, man. I hope your investments do well. Just don't call me a liar for suggesting that the glass could also be half empty.

 

[Psion]

Given that more people buy print products, I wonder how many of them (well.. us) are willing to buy a product in both formats.

I'm not, for example.

I may be a rarity, but I usually buy one format (preferably PDF as it's usually cheaper, but some companies selling through DTRPG break this mold...), and then if I find that I use it a lot, I buy the other.

A few companies have experimented with giving you a PDF version if you buy the print version. I wish more companies would do that.

 

[JoeGKushner]

PDF is (much) cheaper than print.

Depends. Currently GR is charging something like $6.95 per race for the Races that are supposed to be in the Advanced Race Codex. NO way I couldn't get it cheaper in print from say Amazon.com or Buy.com.

PDF does not have an outside vendor that will provide 'discounts' for those looking for the low end deal and are willing to wait for delivery.

 

[Pramas]

To address a few points:

On PDFs:
We understand that not everyone likes PDFs. What we've found, however, is that there is no difference of taste between gamers who like PDFs and gamers who don't. Books that sold well in print also sell well in PDF and vice versa. I have analyzed the numbers and this is true across all our releases. PDF sales thus can be a useful way to gauge consumer interest in a partciluar product.

On d20 and the OGL:
It used to be that there was a basic split between d20 products and OGL-only products. The former required the D&D (or later d20 Modern) rules to use, the latter used the SRD to create stand-alone games. Within the last year I have noticed people asserting that there is a third category: d20 products that aren't "really d20". The idea seems to be that if they aren't vanilla enough to drop into a RAW D&D game they don't count as d20. I find this idea ridiculous, as any number of highly-praised d20 books of years past would not now fit into the definition of d20.

On the sluggish economy:
Only one poster even mentioned the sluggish economy and it wasn't me. There are enough home grown in the game industry reasons for the overall decline of RPG sales that I don't even need to go there.

On the Book of Fiends:
Yes, the Book of Fiends sure did sell well, but it also came out in 2003 when the d20 market was a whole lot different than it is today.

On the ransom model:
Some RPG companies are experimenting with the ransom model of publishing, which basically means "we'll publish this product when we get X amount of money." That's not something we're seriously looking at for two reasons. First, you really need to make the product first and our manpower is better spent on surer projects. Second, even in cases where there are pre-exsting PDF books, we're far more likely to go the POD option because it makes inventory control a lot easier.

 

[Sammael]

The Book of Fiends came out in 2003? I could have sworn it was 2004, and I know it sold out pretty quickly, so you had to do a second print run in 2005. How is the second print run doing, if you don't mind the question?