D&D 5E Advanced D&D or "what to minimally fix in 5E?"

[FrogReaver]

The game doesn't stay 5e when WotC adds something new, but change away from 5e and become a new game when someone else adds the same thing. If the game is overwhelmingly 5e, but adds some new stuff, like A5e does, it's still 5e. It's not a new game.

I think we each consider what counts as 5e to start and stop in different places.

I think official Wotc content vs non-official makes as fine a criteria as any.

 

[Maxperson]

I think we each consider what counts as 5e to start and stop in different places.

I think official Wotc content vs non-official makes as fine a criteria as any.

Sure. I'm just objecting to the absolute tone of his posts. If he feels that those things aren't 5e for him, that's fine. To say that they just aren't 5e isn't correct.

 

[Minigiant]

The game doesn't stay 5e when WotC adds something new, but change away from 5e and become a new game when someone else adds the same thing. If the game is overwhelmingly 5e, but adds some new stuff, like A5e does, it's still 5e. It's not a new game.

I think there is about 4 layers of 5e

The Skeleton: The core rule to play, The big D&D tropes, Advantage, Proficiency
The Muscle: The basic rules that make the core move
The Skin: The Official rules.
The Clothes: Official Setting rules. Splat additions.

3pp splat books just change the clothes.
Something like A5E/LU keeps the bones and muscle. So you don't need to learn a new system. The guts are still the same.
Things like Shadowdark and DC20 change 5e to the bone.

I think what @CapnZapp wants is stuff that never goes past skindeep.

 

[DinoInDisguise]

5,e is popular.
Very popular
Some people use that popularity to claim its flaws or incomplete parts are minor or uncommonly spoke about.

But that very popularity means many have spoken about 5e's flaws and and missing bits.

For example it's roster of skills is unbalance. This warps 5e skill use to a few skills which PCs can focus on too easily.

I think the skill unbalance is because the attachment of skills to ability scores wasn't originally intended. The way the PHB phrases, "dexterity (stealth) check" is redundant if it was. I think you are suppose to, as a player, be able to use whatever ability makes sense, at the time, for any skill check. Such as asking for a "strength (stealth) check" when trying to move a heavy object quietly. I think this was either scrapped late in the process, or was never explained.

On a different note;

I think the difference in people claiming flaws are minor, is how you view the game. If I am having fun with a system, it doesn't really matter to me that you see flaws in it. And the same is true in reverse. So I don't agree that people are downplaying the flaws, they just disagree about the seriousness of those flaws.

TTRPGs are personal and subjective due to how the players and the DM interact with the system. Each table, each group, they all play differently. One group can percieve a flaw that another group never does. I've lived this as I've read these forums. Many of the "flaws" discussed here, are issues I've never had in 9 years with the system.

I think there is an unbridgable gap if both sides of a discussion are playing very different games, regardless of those games sharing a system.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the skill unbalance is because the attachment of skills to ability scores wasn't originally intended. The way the PHB phrases, "dexterity (stealth) check" is redundant if it was. I think you are suppose to, as a player, be able to use whatever ability makes sense, at the time, for any skill check. Such as asking for a "strength (stealth) check" when trying to move a heavy object quietly. I think this was either scrapped late in the process, or was never explained.

It's because of that AND because WOTC didn't want to prescribe alternative ability uses to not feel like they are forcing DMs to use their ideas.

Because the skills themselves has different default weights and the alt ability versions as well.

Stealth is more often used than Arcana. Arcana more than Medicine.

Dexterity (stealth) would be used a lot.
Wisdom (stealth) or Intelligence (stealth) could be justified occasionally
Strength (stealth) almost never

But they are all weighted the same to make it simple. And you can only fix it as a designer by telling players examples to self prompt OR by including farfetched situations that use the uncommon more often in modules.

Whether you see he problem as minor or major is based on often issues came up and how well/poorly it was handled at the table.

It' like Languages. D&D languages system is a mess and it's silly. Always has been. But few use it often so whatever.

 

[Weiley31]

History becomes Lore and you use it for any knowledge your character might know from background, class or race. If it's out of your wheelhouse of experience, inflict disadvantage or change the DC.

I really like your 'Lore' change.

IIRC, both Adventures in Middle-Earth 5E and Beowulf:Age of Heroes pretty much does this with their INT skills in regard to like History/Arcane/ETC minus the Disadvantage (respectively as Lore/Legends).

So,ya that would work too.

 

[Corinnguard]

I think the skill unbalance is because the attachment of skills to ability scores wasn't originally intended.

While Level Up also attaches skills to ability scores, it's not a one-to-one connection like it is in 5e. Stealth in 5e, for example, is always associated with Dexterity. In Level Up, you can do a Constitution (Stealth) check to stay still for a long time. An Intelligence (Stealth) check for casing out an unfrequented route. Or a Charisma (Stealth) check for blending anonymously into a crowd.

I don't consider this to be something new. It's quite likely that one or more DM came to this realization well before it was made official by EN Publishing. This is how TTRPGs like 5e change over time, small incremental changes that work their way into the official books thanks to DMs, players and company design teams.

 

[Weiley31]

and the halberd, as it exists: d10 damage heavy weapon, with finesse property

Heaven help you if you wanted the Reach property on that too.

Oh wait, it does. WATCH OUT EVERYONE!!

 

[Minigiant]

While Level Up also attaches skills to ability scores, it's not a one-to-one connection like it is in 5e. Stealth in 5e, for example, is always associated with Dexterity. In Level Up, you can do a Constitution (Stealth) check to stay still for a long time. An Intelligence (Stealth) check for casing out an unfrequented route. Or a Charisma (Stealth) check for blending anonymously into a crowd.

I don't consider this to be something new. It's quite likely that one or more DM came to this realization well before it was made official by EN Publishing. This is how TTRPGs like 5e change over time, small incremental changes that work their way into the official books thanks to DMs, players and company design teams.

Disassociation of Ability Score and Skill are in the Official D&D books.

It's not a change or evolution.

That's how LU stays in the realm of 5e. Level Up merely and heavily changes the stress on different rules.

Just like how every DM does

I stress the source and scripts of D&D languages. So when I introduce Northcommon.and Southcommon, I don't have to reteach the core Language rules.

 

[Morrus]

No, a new game is (drum roll please) a game that is self-contained: you only need that book or those books to play.

But that branches off from 5E. That's an attempt to start something new. Away from 5E. Something that isn't 5E.

Incorrect. It's isn't 'D&D'. It is 5E.