Advantage and Disadvantage stacking

[Dolgo]

What about "super advantage and super disadvantage"? (name is negotiable)

1 advantage + 1 disadvantage = negate (1 die)
2 advantage + 1 disadvantage = advantage (2 dice pick highest)
3 advantage + 1 disadvantage = advantage + 2 (2 dice pick highest at +2)

2 More disadvantages than advantages would of course be -2

And thats it, the highest you get negative or positive would be a +2/-2

My thoughts go to the commentor that talked about the wet floor. Wet floor, wind, fog etc. all create a blanket disadvantage no matter what pre-planning, strategy, flanking or other advantage(s) are available. I would like to think that despite a blinding snow a certain legendary drow would be able to take advantage of his tactical sense, training and experience to put odds back in his favor.

I could see it being called "The Rule of Twos".

Idk just a thought.

 

[Mattachine]

I would just like the advantage/disadvantage stack, then compare--if equal, no effect, if more advantage, then you get advantage; if more disadvantage, then you have disadvantage.

 

[john112364]

I would just like the advantage/disadvantage stack, then compare--if equal, no effect, if more advantage, then you get advantage; if more disadvantage, then you have disadvantage.

I agree. This is the only way I would like to see stacking. Any other way is just too counter intuitive and would complicate things too much.

 

[Ferghis]

As others have proposed, I think allowing advantages and disadvantages to stack would be an excellent OPTIONAL rule. Keeping it simple should be the default, but there are ONLY benefits to offering this rule as an option.

My reasoning is this: the average change yielded per additional dice rolled (and taking the highest or lowest) decreases per every extra die roll, and the same applies to the odds of rolling a 20. The first extra die changes the average by about 3.3 (on a d20). The second, by about 1.5. The third, by about 0.7, and so on. In a similar way, the first extra die of advantage increases the odds of rolling a crit to 9.5%. The second, to about 12%. The third, to 13% or so. If someone works to accumulate more and more advantages, the benefit added by each one become smaller and smaller, while the player in question is happier and happier. So why not let it be an option?

I can offer the exact numbers if someone wants. I'm not good at statistical math, so I put all the possible combinations in a spreadsheet and had it tally up the results (brute force method).

 

[Hypersmurf]

In a similar way, the first extra die of advantage increases the odds of rolling a crit to 9.5%. The second, to about 12%. The third, to 13% or so.

Hmm... my numbers come out:

1 5%
2 9.75%
3 14.26%
4 18.55%
5 22.62%

F = p + (1-p)(F(n-1)), I think?

-Hyp.

 

[Ferghis]

I'm posting from my cell phone, but I'll get you the exact numbers and how I got them as soon as possible.

 

[Ferghis]

Hmm... my numbers come out:

1 5%
2 9.75%
3 14.26%
4 18.55%
5 22.62%

F = p + (1-p)(F(n-1)), I think?

-Hyp.

I have no idea about the equation, but you're right on the money about the numbers. Damn my terrible memory. The benefit to crits of stacking advantages deteriorates at a much lower rate. Here are all my numbers rounded to the second place after the decimal point, from the spreadsheet:

Average of best of 2d20: 13.83
Average Improvement over 1d20: 3.33
Odds of critical: 9.75%
Crit odds improvement over 1d20: 4.75%

Average of best of 3d20: 15.49
Average Improvement over 1d20: 4.99
Average Improvement over 2d20: 1.66
Odds of critical: 14.26%
Crit odds improvement over 1d20: 9.26%
Crit odds improvement over 2d20: 4.51%

Average of best of 4d20: 16.48
Average Improvement over 1d20: 5.98
Average Improvement over 2d20: 2.66
Average Improvement over 3d20: 1.00
Odds of critical: 18.55%
Crit odds improvement over 1d20: 13.55%
Crit odds improvement over 2d20: 8.80%
Crit odds improvement over 3d20: 4.29%

Methodology: first four columns of the spreadsheet have the die rolls. The A column just repeats 1-20 over and over again, and each of these sets of 20 rows corresponds to one number of a d20 in the B column. This is repeated for the C and D columns, with increasingly longer series of the same digit (to include every possible iteration of the prior columns). This takes 160,000 rows (thank god for copy paste), which is 20 to the fourth power. In the E column I take the highest roll from the first two columns, in the F from the first three, and in the G from the first four (these are the actual results of advantage). Then, I calculate the average of columns E, F and G to obtain the average results of one, two and three advantages, respectively. To figure out the odds of a crit, I count the 20s in columns E, F and G using the COUNTIF formula. The improvements are simple subtraction. I use LibreOffice Calc.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The benefit to crits of stacking advantages deteriorates at a much lower rate.

So does that alter your opinion about the virtues of a stacking-avantage system?

This takes 160,000 rows...

Yeah, with the formula, it took 4

(To be fair, I haven't tried figuring out the formula for the average roll, so I can't provide that information as you have.)

-Hyp.

 

[Minigiant]

There has to be some way to adv/diadv from simply cancelling out.

Or it will cause something like casting darkness/always uphill/stinky powder to grant every foe disadvantage or nothing for the whole fight

 

[Ferghis]

So does that alter your opinion about the virtues of a stacking-avantage system?

If they don't change the crit benefit (which simply maximizes damage), no. I'm perfectly happy with an optional rule that allows you to do max damage with a one-in-five (or even one-in-four) chance if you really work hard at it.

Again, I favor an optional rule allowing multiple advantages and disadvantages to stack.
The default rule should be the simpler one, I feel.

Yeah, with the formula, it took 4

(To be fair, I haven't tried figuring out the formula for the average roll, so I can't provide that information as you have.)

That's okay. When the zombie uprising comes looking for brains, I'll just point them towards you.