Advantages / Disadvantages

[Harlekin]

MMI is more of a GM issue than a rules issue. It varies from GM to GM as to how big of an issue it is, but you cannot codify everything that is going to happen in an RPG game. Attempting to do so simply results in an overly complex set of rules that ends up with you spending more time looking up esoteric situations in an oversized rulebook than just saying yes and moving on.

Just last night in my weekly game (Pathfinder) we were playing gridless. My character likes to get flanking and several times I asked the GM if I could get into flanking. There was no arguing about it or debating it, he simply said yes and we moved on. Had he said no at some point I would have been fine with that as well as we trust each other.

I agree that the impact of MMI-rules depend on the group. Especially in groups that have played together for a long time, there is an understanding between players and DM that often allows players to predict how the DM will rule and moreover there is a sufficient level of trust that rulings will typically be fair.

However, in less then ideal situations, misunderstandings between players and GMs can often result in bad experiences or at least in a lot of extra work for the player, if the rules system does little or nothing to support the decisions the GM makes.

 

[Warbringer]

Nope... Double distribution math isn't linear

 

[Mistwell]

I like the dis/advantage thing in theory, but it was a bit awkward in practice, especially when you're resolving lots of attacks at once. Tonight I had my fighter stumble into a hall with 40 kobolds, who all threw their spears at him at once. They outnumbered him, so they all got advantage on their attack--but I didn't want to roll 80 dice. I ended up conveniently "forgetting" advantage when combats involved lots of combatants.

It's awesome that it's the kind of fast-playing game like BD&D/AD&D where you can just pick up a giant handful of dice, roll them all and count the hits, but the advantage rules make that a bit awkward. Maybe I'll abstract it to a +3 bonus whenever it would be inconvenient to roll double the d20s.

It's just an excuse for you to buy a whole lot more d20s, in sets of colors. So two crimson, two navy, two royal, two light blue, two hunter, two forest, two white, two gray, two pale yellow, etc...

 

[Warbringer]

Lol....

 

[Mistwell]

Hasn't WotC already been there and back on re-roll mechanics? They were everywhere in core SWSE, but pretty much gone in 4e and later SWSE. And there's a good reason for this. Flat bonuses are faster, and the probability math for them is much, much easier to do. It's one of those things that initially looks elegant and falls down in actual play.

They were in 4e, for the Avenger, and I find two rolls and taking the higher, or lower, to be MUCH faster than a flat bonus.

 

[underfoot007ct]

I like that they tried to implement an easy solution for these situations.
I don't like rolling two dice. I also don't like re-rolling a dice.
Why?
Maybe it's just me, but rolling two dice somehow interrupts my internal game flow. Because it's technical. Fate also does not roll two dices.
One Action - one roll

"FATE also does not roll Two dice", you have some insider knowledge about FATE? Fate rolls dice?

Yet is sounds like you are among a very small group that dislikes this mechanic. I myself like this, and am looking forward to seeing this mechanic in play soon.

 

[Mistwell]

Advantage/Disadvantage reads well, but in play I think it is a horrible rule. The effect of advantage/disadvantage is way too big; for most game situations, it amounts to a +5 modifier.

In practice difficult combats will only be about getting advantage. The only classes that have the best tools to get advantage within the rules are of course casters while fighters have nothing.

One might argue that fighter then need to think outside the rules, but with the MMI*-nature of the rules, this means that the GM will have to argue over player ideas every turn.

I seriously hope this rule gets reigned in in playtest.

*MMI="mother, may I"

You talk about reading well and in practice...and yet your post reads like you have not tried it in practice and are simply thinking about how you suspect it will work in practice?

Playtest reports I've read, from those who have played with it, all say it worked great. Your mileage may vary, but you might want to get in the car and drive first before deciding that your mileage varies. Kinda hard to tell others it won't work in practice, when you have not practiced to see if it works.

 

[P1NBACK]

Finding a ladder means you aren't climbing a wall anymore, you are climbing a ladder.

Heh.

 

[Kzach]

I think it's obvious that the "advantage" meh-chanic (yeah I went there) is just WotC pandering to the RPG-industrial complex to artificially increase the sales of d20s. It's just like FATE mandating that I buy new "Fudge" dice when I already own dozens of perfectly good d6s.

Wake up sheeple!

Two things:

1) I once got a temp ban for using the word "sheeple".

2) Please tell me that you don't honestly believe that WotC is milking gamers of the few cents that dice-makers make off of d20's.

 

[variant]

I love Advantages/Disadvantages. It is a great way to offer a statistical modifier without dealing with the issues of being able to or not being able to hit a DC.