D&D General Adventurers in Faerun-The Book of Low and Mid Level Adventures?

[DEFCON 1]

Unlike 3rd party folks who are very dependent on their sources of income and generally don't have the resources for an anthology book, WotC could easily make a high level adventure or two in each of the anthology books they put out. Folks needing low and mid stuff would still eat it up, and the rest of us could get some high level adventures.

Anyone could easily make high level adventures, but none of these people or companies are charities. It doesn't matter how big or small they are. Just because a few people might want something doesn't mean anyone else needs to spend their money to give it to them out of the kindness of the hearts.

And besides... as we have seen with the responses to all the high-level stuff that WotC has produced... no one seems to like any of it. So I don't know why people would want WotC to make more of that stuff for them anyway because they'd probably hate all of that too.

 

[Maxperson]

Anyone could easily make high level adventures, but none of these people or companies are charities. It doesn't matter how big or small they are. Just because a few people might want something doesn't mean anyone else needs to spend their money to give it to them out of the kindness of the hearts.

My response that you quoted takes care of that. There's no charity involved with what I said.

And besides... as we have seen with the responses to all the high-level stuff that WotC has produced... no one seems to like any of it. So I don't know why people would want WotC to make more of that stuff for them anyway because they'd probably hate all of that too.

5e sales very strongly indicate that the vast majority of 5e D&D players don't hate everything WotC puts out.

 

[DEFCON 1]

My response that you quoted takes care of that. There's no charity involved with what I said.

5e sales very strongly indicate that the vast majority of 5e D&D players don't hate everything WotC puts out.

The charity would be if there's not enough people who actually want high-level stuff (which of course we already know because WotC has told us that) to make the writing and publication of said material actually worth their time. Time they otherwise would spend designing other things that would actually make them more substantive money, which is what all companies are trying to do. To make things that won't really sell in any usable amounts just to make some small contingent of the player base happy is indeed closer to charity than it is an intelligent business decision.

And while 5E sales might indicate that the vast majority of 5E players like the stuff they actually have bought from WotC... that also indicates how much stuff they do buy. And if more people wanted high-level material, WotC and all the 3PPs would know it and actually produce stuff for it. There would be a void in the marketplace that someone at this point would have filled. But since they haven't... ipso facto there's no real void. There just aren't enough people out there buying this material for anyone to spend their time trying to fill it.

Does it suck for some of you? Sure. But then again... there IS stuff out there for you. Not at the sheer amounts there is for levels 1-7... but it's there. So go buy it. Even if each specific individual product isn't exactly what you need at this moment in time for the current high-level adventure you are running. At least you'd be proving to WotC and the 3PPs were wrong in ignoring that void in the marketplace. Show them there is an audience for this stuff. Because if you don't... you're just proving them right.

 

[Maxperson]

The charity would be if there's not enough people who actually want high-level stuff (which of course we already know because WotC has told us that) to make the writing and publication of said material actually worth their time. Time they otherwise would spend designing other things that would actually make them more substantive money, which is what all companies are trying to do. To make things that won't really sell in any usable amounts just to make some small contingent of the player base happy is indeed closer to charity than it is an intelligent business decision.

There is no charity, because A) 10% of people want high level, and B) WotC loses no money by putting one in an anthology book of adventures.

And while 5E sales might indicate that the vast majority of 5E players like the stuff they actually have bought from WotC... that also indicates how much stuff they do buy. And if more people wanted high-level material, WotC and all the 3PPs would know it and actually produce stuff for it. There would be a void in the marketplace that someone at this point would have filled. But since they haven't... ipso facto there's no real void. There just aren't enough people out there buying this material for anyone to spend their time trying to fill it.

This is false as 3pp don't have the resources to put out an anthology book the way WotC does and make the kind of sales WotC does. It would be a loss for a 3pp, where it's not for WotC.

What I am saying involves no charity.

 

[Parmandur]

In a setting book, rather than actual adventures, I think lore reasons/opportunities for high-level adventures would be easier to write and more useful at the same time. An author who's never heard of you can't predict the specific crazy abilities of your party, but they can go "a lich in Daggerdale is replacing farmers with his shapechanged dragon slaves to monopolize wheat production, Elminster needs a group of 18th-level flunkies to sort it out for him before his scones start getting more expensive." Add in some local flavor and some setting details, and let the PCs figure out how to solve the problem.

I mean, they do that in this book.

 

[mamba]

WotC could easily make a high level adventure or two in each of the anthology books they put out.

two adventures is about 1/3 to 1/4 of the book. In that case the rest really must be something I want to make up for that.

There generally are adventures I am not interested in in the anthologies already, if they now have a default 1/3 I do not care for, a single additional adventure might tip the scales to ‘do not bother’…

No, leave the anthologies as they are, maybe try a high level one to mix things up - but then isn’t that basically the Vecna book?

 

[Clint_L]

The higher Levels serve two purposes: the first is honoring Tradition, same as other random features of 5E D&D thwt WotC cannot actually change if they want3d to.

The second is to provide an aspirational model of what a super powerful Wizard could be and do, even if a player never goes there.

I especially love your second point, as I don't think we discuss it often. The aspirational aspect of games with character progression is incredibly important (and also basically a D&D innovation...maybe the D&D innovation). Even if, realistically, you are unlikely to reach max level, it is fun to think about and even plan for it. I played my 1e main for around seven years and attained level 13 (maybe only level 11; it gets a bit hazy), but that whole time I was busy sketching out ideas for when our party hit the topmost tiers of play. And even now, I like to run numbers in my head for my current main character at different levels, especially level 20 (level 20 monks are no joke with the 2024 rules!).

That's not to minimize those topmost levels for those who do play them (I've played a total of ONE level 20 game with the 2024 rules). But even knowing those games are vanishingly rare in the overall scheme of things, having those top levels in the game is important.

I also find it fascinating how much those uppermost levels tend to dominate discussions about class balance, given how little play they see. You would think balance discussions should be driven by a focus on levels 1-10, but they really aren't. Even if we seldom use those high levels, we remain preoccupied with them, and if they weren't in the game, we would demand them back!

 

[Maxperson]

two adventures is about 1/3 to 1/4 of the book. In that case the rest really must be something I want to make up for that.

There generally are adventures I am not interested in in the anthologies already, if they now have a default 1/3 I do not care for, a single additional adventure might tip the scales to ‘do not bother’…

No, leave the anthologies as they are, maybe try a high level one to mix things up - but then isn’t that basically the Vecna book?

Then one adventure, which would be like 1/6th or something. And if you are generally not interested in anthologies, then you don't really count for this. You aren't their target with anthologies anyway.

For those who like anthologies, getting 5 adventures they can use instead of 6 isn't going to stop them from buying the book. Further, having a high level adventure in the book would encourage some of those who don't play high level, to try it out and maybe they will start. What's more, a chunk of those who don't generally buy anthologies but are starved for high level adventures(about 10% of us) would buy it when they otherwise wouldn't.

 

[Yaarel]

there's not enough people who actually want high-level stuff (which of course we already know because WotC has told us that) to make the writing and publication of said material actually worth their time.

If so, it suggests high level characters are unfun for most players. Maybe it is time to rethink how high level mechanics work, such as simplify spell slots with spell points.

 

[mamba]

And if you are generally not interested in anthologies, then you don't really count for this.

I did not say I wasn’t, I said they usually contain some adventures I am not interested in, and once that ratio gets too high the question becomes whether to book as a whole still contains enough material of interest to buy it

For those who like anthologies, getting 5 adventures they can use instead of 6 isn't going to stop them from buying the book.

that goes back to whether the other 5 are of sufficient interest. No matter how you slice it, including something most people do not want over something more people might want is rarely a good strategy