Adventurer's Vault masterwork armours

[jasin]

What with all the talk about how double swords are broken, I only just now noticed the new masterwork armours.

While I like the idea behind the ones where there's some sort of tradeoff (snakeskin leather +4 for +6 AC and +2 Ref, or feyleather +4 for +7 AC?), I'm not sure what's the reasoning behind ones that are just plain better than equivalent PHB options. Such as anything where the required enhancement is +2, +3 or +5.

At the start, masterwork armours seemed like something half-finished when it was put in the PHB. There's this big table and different names and stuff, and it all boils down to "light: at enhancement +4, add +1, at enhancement +6, add +2; heavy: at enhancement +4, add +3, at enhancement +6, add +6".

AV gives the table some reason for existence, but it's still a bit weird. For example, there's a Price column, dutifully explained as the "The item's price in gold pieces (gp)"... even though the price is "special" (and effectively +0 gp!) for every single masterwork armour in the game!

And it's very annoying that suddenly any +3 scale has no reason not to be +11 to AC, rather than the +10 as it is in the PHB.

 

[logopolis]

I don't really have a problem with it. With the PHB armour types, there are some large jumps in AC at higher levels. The AV armour types smooth out the curve a bit, and add a bit of variety.

 

[Obryn]

It smooths out the scales for most armor types. I don't particularly mind it, to be honest. It keeps the jumps at 4th and 6th much smaller, comparatively, and also gives a few neat options for folks who'd like special perks instead of extra AC.

-O

 

[Gruns]

Because the DM says so?

And it's very annoying that suddenly any +3 scale has no reason not to be +11 to AC, rather than the +10 as it is in the PHB.

Because the DM says so? In my campaign you can't buy masterwork armor. You can find them as loot or perhaps go on quests to have them specially made or whatever. But they are definitely not the norm.

Later!
Gruns

 

[jasin]

I don't really have a problem with it. With the PHB armour types, there are some large jumps in AC at higher levels. The AV armour types smooth out the curve a bit, and add a bit of variety.

Quite right. I saw armours that were strictly better than the PHB ones, and it seemed like simply blatant power creep to, but it really does fit the same curve.

The fact that it took the writers another book to figure out that a 6-point curve could be smoother than 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 6 does agree with my suspicions that they haven't quite thought this through either.

 

[jasin]

Because the DM says so? In my campaign you can't buy masterwork armor. You can find them as loot or perhaps go on quests to have them specially made or whatever. But they are definitely not the norm.

That sounds like most magic items in 4E, no? Rarity reflected through the fact that you have to find it as loot or go on quests isn't really rarity in D&D, considering that the focus of the game is going on quests and looting. And anyway, I don't think that in a game like D&D, rarity is a valid justification for a game element to be overpowered.

(I don't think the masterwork armours are overpowered anymore, but I wanted to comment on the general principle.)

 

[Gruns]

Umm.. No...

That sounds like most magic items in 4E, no?

No, actually. In 4E, characters are generally allowed to simply purchase any magic item they can afford, up to their level. Items beyond the PC's level must be found as loot. (PHB 223, DMG125)

Masterwok Armors also MUST be found as loot. (PHB212) This makes them much different from regular armors, and a lot more rare (as rare as the DM wants).

Rarity reflected through the fact that you have to find it as loot or go on quests isn't really rarity in D&D, considering that the focus of the game is going on quests and looting. And anyway, I don't think that in a game like D&D, rarity is a valid justification for a game element to be overpowered.

(I don't think the masterwork armours are overpowered anymore, but I wanted to comment on the general principle.)

I don't understand why you don't think that the DM making something rare doesn't count as it being rare... A suit of plain old +4 Platemail is perfectly fine for a level 16 to acquire easily. Roleplay the finding of the blacksmith to make it, Enchant it yourself, or simply handwave it and pay the gold, it doesn't matter. +4 Warplate Armor, however, is something special and not nearly as easy to acquire. It is this rarity that makes it unique, and will make the players that much happier when(if) it is discovered.

Later!
Gruns

 

[Ibixat]

No, actually. In 4E, characters are generally allowed to simply purchase any magic item they can afford, up to their level. Items beyond the PC's level must be found as loot. (PHB 223, DMG125)

Masterwok Armors also MUST be found as loot. (PHB212) This makes them much different from regular armors, and a lot more rare (as rare as the DM wants).



I don't understand why you don't think that the DM making something rare doesn't count as it being rare... A suit of plain old +4 Platemail is perfectly fine for a level 16 to acquire easily. Roleplay the finding of the blacksmith to make it, Enchant it yourself, or simply handwave it and pay the gold, it doesn't matter. +4 Warplate Armor, however, is something special and not nearly as easy to acquire. It is this rarity that makes it unique, and will make the players that much happier when(if) it is discovered.

Later!
Gruns

I seriously hope you are adjusting the monsters down to compensate since the design was balanced based on those masterwork armors being used for anything their plus or higher etc. Also due to the lack of a stat bonus to ac heavy armor wearers the light armor rogue and ranger etc would have higher AC than the plate wearing fighter if you didn't do the masterwork route.

At 30 a rogue can hope for about 24-26-28 dexterty depending on epic destiny and starting score. So lets go with the 26 which grants a Dexmod of +13, Leather armor +6 without masterwork qualities is 8 AC plus the 13 dexmod 21 ac from armor and stat Plate Mail +6 is 14 ac... meaning the light armor wearing rogue has 7 more ac from his armor than the fighter without factoring in masterworks

If you go for top of the line masterwork for both in AC pursuits you end up with starleather +6 granting 10 AC + the 13 for 23 ac from armor and stat and the level 6 godplate granting 20, for well 20, that brings the disparity of AC down from 7 to 3. 7 difference is pretty harsh, 3 is at least not too crazy, and that is assuming a starting stat of 18 with a +2 stat epic destiny or a 20 and no stat epic D. Though I imagine most rogues would want to take hide feat to get voidhide and the +2 fort bonus it offers for the same ac as starleather.

 

[Ibixat]

No, actually. In 4E, characters are generally allowed to simply purchase any magic item they can afford, up to their level. Items beyond the PC's level must be found as loot. (PHB 223, DMG125)

Masterwok Armors also MUST be found as loot. (PHB212) This makes them much different from regular armors, and a lot more rare (as rare as the DM wants).

uh, no, keep reading page 212... you skipped over the line that says

"The cost of masterwork armor is included in the cost of magic armor."

Armor of +4 or above in PHB is assumed to be of masterwork quality. The "cost" is already factored in. And as you pointed out, it's a given that players can buy a item of their level or less with their gold.

 

[Runestar]

I don't see what is the big deal about just throwing say, godplate armour in your fighter's face. It should already have been balanced based on its item level and gp cost (meaning that the player will access it only when appropriate, and as resources allow).