Adventures don't Sell? Do you agree? Redman Article

[Belen]

That's the problem with 3e. Too much for the players and hardly anything for the GM. Yes, we get to use those books to put together ultra-bbeg's, however, how much of that material do we use?

If the normal campaign last for about a year, then owning a dozen or so source books is useless.

Am I the only one who bought a source book because I thought it would be awesome in at the end of my campaign or useful in my next campaign and then forgot I had it on the shelf. Heck, my tastes change from time to time and one source book may be useful for an instant, but useless the next.

Yet, I would kill for adventures! That is the hardest part of getting my weekly game together. And Dungeon BITES. We get, maybe, 3 adventures an issue, mostly tied to Greyhawk or FR, and if nothing comes out in the issue when I need, I am am stuck improvisong again!

In the old days, I would go to the game store, and look through roughly 5-10 adventures for a specific level, buy a few, read them, and decide what I needed for the coming week.

Now, I go to the game store, look around, get disappointed, maybe buy a few new die and walk out.

 

[tzor]

Old generic adventures did sell ... in the old days

I don't think you have any proof of this (and if we look at the fate of TSR, and the verifiable fact that they did not have money to pay the printers at the end of their days, I'm not convinced that they sold).

First of all, it's been several years since the fall of TSR but I thought that part of the fall of TSR was through the paperback division. This was the area where retailers could get most of their money back for unsold product by simply sending back the cover of the unsold book.

Secondly, I think we need to distinguish TSR during the 80's and TSR during the last years. In the last years TSR changed its model, developing specific scenarios starting with Dark Sun and then Birthright. Dark Sun adventures were campaign specific, and Birthright was done through the supplement model, producing a plethora of player's guides to all the regions in birthright.

So let's take the way back machine all the way back to 1st edtion. Modules were generic in the truest sense, even when they were tied to specific campaigns. (It is a very easy process to take all the Lankhmar adventures and port them almost to any published scenario.) Now while I cannot give exact numbers on adventure module sales, I can't seem to recall them flowing on the shelves. I do recall taking my time searching through the small stack to see if there were any new adventure modules that I hadn't gotten yet.

Speaking of "generic" one good example was a Lankhmar supplement that got a "Forgotten Realms" logo plastered on the cover.

One of the problems with adventure modules is that it doesn't really follow the same economic model as the rulebook, or scenario book, or game supplement. It really follows the comic book module. Bought on impulse, the issue also provides the impluse to get the next issue in the series when the next issue comes out. All the good 1E AD&D adventures were in series, typically prefixed with the series identifier. Even when lankhmar adventures or supplements came out twice a year I still looked forward to it.

Personally I think the adventure module is still a viable product. But, in order to make it a viable product you have to think outside the box. The world has changed since 1E, and the needs of the DM and players are vastly different. If you provide what the DM and the players need, in a format they can appreciate, at a price that is reasonable (and above cost so as to make it profitable) then they will buy.

 

[TiQuinn]

That's the problem with 3e. Too much for the players and hardly anything for the GM. Yes, we get to use those books to put together ultra-bbeg's, however, how much of that material do we use?

If the normal campaign last for about a year, then owning a dozen or so source books is useless.

Am I the only one who bought a source book because I thought it would be awesome in at the end of my campaign or useful in my next campaign and then forgot I had it on the shelf. Heck, my tastes change from time to time and one source book may be useful for an instant, but useless the next.

Yet, I would kill for adventures! That is the hardest part of getting my weekly game together. And Dungeon BITES. We get, maybe, 3 adventures an issue, mostly tied to Greyhawk or FR, and if nothing comes out in the issue when I need, I am am stuck improvisong again!

In the old days, I would go to the game store, and look through roughly 5-10 adventures for a specific level, buy a few, read them, and decide what I needed for the coming week.

Now, I go to the game store, look around, get disappointed, maybe buy a few new die and walk out.

I have the exact opposite problem. Looking at new adventures, I find that in any given month, 2 or 3 new adventures come out from some publisher, and I end up buying 1 or none because

A) The adventure is for levels much higher or much lower than the party currently is.
B) The adventure is very setting specific.
C) I look through the adventure and just don't find it interesting.

Now of course, I can take any of these adventures and pour some work into it to make it immediately usable to me, and occasionally I do that, but for DM's with limited time on their hands, that can be a pain. Hence, I have no surprise that adventures do not sell as well.

BTW, there's also a fourth possibility: the supermodules that many people are playing may actually cut into other module sales. I know that when I ran Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, I didn't really need anything else for a good 9 months.

 

[AnthonyJ]

It's worth noting that the belief 'adventures don't sell' is not limited to the d20 marketplace. In fact, outside of the D&D market, pretty much no-one produces adventures, nor have they done so since the 80s.

This doesn't mean they aren't producing resources for the GM. Worldbooks and setting books, while often readable by players, are fundamentally GM resources.

The problem with adventures is not, I think, that they're only for the GM. The problem is that most of them aren't even usable by most GMs, because they don't fit well into the campaign setting, are designed for the wrong types of PCs, are at the wrong power level, or simply don't interest the GM.

 

[Belen]

Tzor has a point. The old adventures really followed a story path. The A, G, and D series rocked. However, adventures started dying down once we got campaign specific modules like the horrible Dragonlance adventure that forced you to follow the novel.

Now, if it that source books are sexier, or that White Wolf made money by printing new editions of the sourcebooks every so often forcing people to update or be left behind.

I believe that adventures will sell, especially in a PDF environment. However, we get more elf books and that is just plain frustrating. I am tired of publishers catering to players alone.

The other problem is that adventures, especially serial adventures need to come out quickly to be of use. So one adventure needs to last for roughly 3-4 sessions and the next in the path needs to come out the following month. Not the following year.

But then, we actually need 10 elf books....right?

 

[Crothian]

There are ten elf books? I only have four...make that two I gave a couple away. I need to get the others

Modules now seem to be more then modules. They are sourcebooks that have modules in them. I have no idea if they are selling, but I'm buying them. Take a look at the Hamlet of Thimble for instance. It's a good adventure, plus has a lot of source material that can be used well after the module part is done.

 

[Faraer]

Speaking of "generic" one good example was a Lankhmar supplement that got a "Forgotten Realms" logo plastered on the cover.

Which one's that?

The world has changed since 1E, and the needs of the DM and players are vastly different.

Could you elaborate? I don't quite see how that's so.

Worldbooks and setting books, while often readable by players, are fundamentally GM resources.

A world book is 'for' players as much as any RPG book is, though a city supplement wouldn't be. The idea that books full of extra roolz are the ones 'for' players doesn't work.

 

[johnsemlak]

Modules now seem to be more then modules. They are sourcebooks that have modules in them. I have no idea if they are selling, but I'm buying them. Take a look at the Hamlet of Thimble for instance. It's a good adventure, plus has a lot of source material that can be used well after the module part is done.

That certianly seems to be Necromancer Games approach recently. Most of their recent modules--e.g. Lost city of Barakus, Grey Citadel, Vault of Larin Karr--are mini settings as well.

From what I can observe, the most viable format for a module now seems ot be the large, mega-adventure, preferably in hardback, and with a lot more in them than an adventure.

It'd be nice to have some of the NG folks chime in on this one.

 

[Storminator]

<SNIP>

Yet, I would kill for adventures! That is the hardest part of getting my weekly game together. And Dungeon BITES. We get, maybe, 3 adventures an issue, mostly tied to Greyhawk or FR, and if nothing comes out in the issue when I need, I am am stuck improvisong again!

<SNIP>

I have a large stack of Dungeons, and I've never failed to get a module out when I need one. I just go thru my stack of mags, and there's always one I can use.

And you really need to come to my FLGS, Belen. They have dozens of adventures. I picked up half a dozen last night.

PS

 

[Desdichado]

It's not true that nobody has produced generic adventures since the 80s. In the wake of 3e's release, tons of generic modules were released. Now, a few years later, that has all but dried up. You can believe what you want, but as far as I'm concerned, that is evidence that just supports the expert opinion of the folks who have the best sales data and best market research available. Adventures aren't worth it to publish, for the most part.