Adversarial Gaming Style

How many adversarial gamers are out there?

  • I am a player and I want to win or at least challenge the GM to beat me.

    Votes: 30 11.4%
  • I am a player who believes in cooperating with the GM.

    Votes: 130 49.2%
  • I am a GM who has at least one adversarial player.

    Votes: 97 36.7%
  • I am a GM whose players all work together to make the game the best it can be for everyone.

    Votes: 112 42.4%

I think players vs. GM is silly. If the GM really wanted to 'win', he'd just pull out 30 Great Wrym Red Dragons, 40 Tarrasques, and 100 Balors (because that's a cool trick), and then pull out the ELH...
 

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With most RPG, except in tournament play I don't really see it as win/lose so don't like to see those attitudes among players or DMs, if I was in a group with people like that I think I'd move on pretty quickly.
 

I have had Adverserial Players.

It is the surest way to lose with me. I will single them out. I will take advantage of holes in their plans. And I will modify their experience points downwards.

This is assuming that they make anybody else's play less enjoyable (including mine). If it doesn't bother anybody then I don't do anything about it, it is just the way they play. But generally the adverserial players are the ones most likely to cause trouble, argue, quibble, or whine.

Ourph said:
Bad advice. A good DM is a much more challenging and interesting adversary than any computer.

No, it is fairly good advice - it may be better for the player than a computer game, but if that player is not good for the game or the DM then he should not be wasting other people's time, unlike computer games there are other people playing...

The Auld Grump
 
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Its gotta be me against them.... they hate it if they aren't yelling at me at some point. Besides if player death is not a true possibility then the game has no flare or depth. Hold no punches display no weakness. I f they do something stupid make them pay. I have had them coming back for more for better than 20 years so I got to be doing something right. Call me the permanent DM as no other member's campaign has lasted 6 months.
 

I have no adversarial players.

The PCs might be very adversarial with the challenges presented again, and the villians are very adversarial toward those PCs, but the actual people around the table are in no way adversarial against each other, even in the cases where the PCs have been at each others' throats. :)
 

If it's actually an adversarial situation (player vs. DM), how can the DM not win? How can the player possibly imagine that the DM is not going to win? Surely he knows that if he "wins" it's because the DM let him.

A game with an adversarial DM will last approximately 3 minutes, no matter how powerful or clever the players or their characters. Obviously, every DM knows this if his/her game has lasted more than 3 minutes - the question is, how can a player not know this too? And what on earth is the point of acting in an adversarial manner if you do know this?
 

After our RBDM raped two of our players of ALL their wealth/trappings, (they were left butt naked man, it was disgusting), I decided to convert to cooperating with the DM.

I think I might have left that a little too late now but we'll see after tonights session! :uhoh:
 

Morrus said:
If it's actually an adversarial situation (player vs. DM), how can the DM not win? How can the player possibly imagine that the DM is not going to win? Surely he knows that if he "wins" it's because the DM let him.

A game with an adversarial DM will last approximately 3 minutes, no matter how powerful or clever the players or their characters. Obviously, every DM knows this if his/her game has lasted more than 3 minutes - the question is, how can a player not know this too? And what on earth is the point of acting in an adversarial manner if you do know this?

Morrus came up with all the questions I was about to ask. Someone on ENWorld posted an analogy recently which i think has a lot of truth to it, namely that DMing is often like playing a game with a bunch of children. You want to let them win, but you don't want to make it obvious that you're doing it and you want to keep it challenging enough for it to be enjoyable.

The reason that my players fight something they can beat is because I chose to create such enemies. The reason the 10th lvl enemy who'll give them a good fight isn't 8th lvl (which might make the fight too easy and boring) and isn't 12th lvl (which might be a TPK) is because I chose to make him 10th lvl. I strive to make my games internally consistent and coherent, but within that consistency I could wipe out the PC parties in every situation. In fact, it usually takes more effort to create situations which will be challenging but will not wipe them out. Creating something where they have no chance would take next to no effort.

Remember, the DM is not just a referee (sorry, Diaglo). He's a referee who created the entire playing field and can change it without you realizing it, who created the opposing team, who created whatever equipment and resources you'll have, who ... well, you get the idea. Sure, players can use their resources and ingenuity to pull off things the DM didn't think of, and personally I think it's incredibly fun when they do that. But if it comes to being adversarial it's like a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Woody Allen, with the caveat that Tyson gets to decide all the rules of the fight and can have access to any weapon he wants.
 

Haloq Jakar said:
Its gotta be me against them.... they hate it if they aren't yelling at me at some point. Besides if player death is not a true possibility then the game has no flare or depth. Hold no punches display no weakness. I f they do something stupid make them pay. I have had them coming back for more for better than 20 years so I got to be doing something right. Call me the permanent DM as no other member's campaign has lasted 6 months.

Well, it has to be said, then, that it evidently isn't you against them. If it really were, your campaign would not have lasted 20 years - it would have lasted (as I said above) under 3 minutes. You don't even have to make an effort to kill an entire party - just snap your fingers.

If the DM is truly "competing" with his players, then PC death is not a possibilty - it is a very quick and sure certainty. "Your 5th level party is suddenly faced with Orcus and all of his legions. Roll for initiative!"
 

Crothian said:
Depends on the game, in moist games we play it is nice and friendly and no us verse them or us verse oursleves. But in the Paranoia game I'm running.... ;)
Hey! I wanna join a moist game! What is moist gaming like?
 

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