Advice about NWoD

[Terramotus]

A couple of years back, my wife ran a great d20 Modern game - sort of a Buffy meets Supernatural meets Dresden Files meets Bureau 13. We enjoyed the game immensely, but we definitely discovered the warts of the d20 Modern system. Some highlights include crashing a car into a vomit demon, striking deals with werewolf clans to keep the peace, and blowing zombies off of our speeding van with a shotgun.

We're looking for something new mechanically, but maybe with the a bit more serious game. My wife, as a GM, is very much in the storyteller mode, so the White Wolf system intrigues her. In particular, we'd like to have some of the PCs have some supernatural powers, perhaps even being a vampire or a werewolf as part of an agency that polices the supernatural as best as it can.

The New World of Darkness books look particularly interesting for our purposes, and it has the advantage of being a different system from our main game (4E). When we run 2 games at a time, we find it helps to run two different game systems. The mechanics look interesting and we'd like to give it a shot.

So here's the question: Assuming we're willing to retool the fluff to our liking, and we're willing to modify (or even dispense with) the morality system to suit our gameplay style, how easy would it be, mechanically, to have a group composed of different types of supernatural creatures - let's say, for instance, a couple of hunters, a werewolf, and a vampire.

From what I've heard, this is technically possible, since all use the same core system, but are a vampire and werewolf with the same point totals even roughly comparable in power level? What about changelings, prometheans, and mages? And, even with the Hunter book, can mere mortals even fit in with the supernatural creatures, assuming they're given similar point totals?

None of us have any real experience with OWoD or NWoD before, but all of us are pretty good with rules and are fairly confident of picking the system up if it'll work for what we want.

Has anyone else tried anything like this? Will it work at all? Or if you've used a different system for something like this, what was it?

 

[Thanee]

Well, we have used the WoD rules with completely different background than the existing games, which works well enough, but requires a bit of work with some of the specifics beyond the core system (attributes, talents and so on work fine).

Mixing Vampires and Werewolves should work fine. I'm not sure how humans fit in there, though. Maybe giving them more points for Talents would be a good idea to balance it a bit.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Aus_Snow]

I really wouldn't recommend it. However, if you try it, and it works out, great! The World of Darkness is notoriously poorly balanced (unworkable, some say) once you start mixing supernatural types, especially with 'non-supers', and the nWoD doesn't appear to be an exception.

Seems like it's time again, to suggest checking out True20. It's a bit lighter than d20 Modern, runs faster, is much more flexible, and should be a great fit for such a campaign.

A nice bonus: every character has a Virtue and a Vice, as well as Conviction points that can be affected by those two aspects of their nature (as well as by other things). Also, there are some great options (in the Revised core book, which should be all you'd need if you went with this system) for horror, or 'horror-ish' campaigns in particular, as well as modern, fantasy and sci-fi. For example, an optional Mental Health track, which can work alongside the Damage Track in the base system.

PCs 'having some supernatural powers' is very straightforward and intuitive, and you can scale that up or down as you prefer, for each character, from someone with one minor ability they can use sometimes, to a full on 'Adept' (e.g., mage or psychic), to anything in between. Vampires and so on shouldn't be a problem, either.

Anyway, like I said, worth a look. There are some quick start rules for download at the game's main website, and the forums there are particularly friendly and helpful, overall.

 

[Shieldhaven]

Hunter: The Vigil is a great new edition of Hunter, and puts the humans back on some kind of footing (not to say equal) with the various fanged creatures. Toe-to-toe, I think the werewolf pretty much always wins, but still, the Hunter bennies are pretty neat.

It also has some rules options specifically tweaking the Morality rules to fit a game where you're supposed to kill the monsters a lot of the time.

Haven

 

[Khairn]

Each of the core new WoD books has its own power scale, so a mix-match may be a challenge, its its definately easier than mixing the old WoD systems. I've done something similar in the past, and based on that experience here are a few thoughts.

The core WoD book is basically "Mortals" and that works very easily with Hunter: The Vigil and Second Sight which provides some low magic abilities. I also recommend Reliquary and Book of Spirits to help with a that low-magic feel.

Of the more magical games, I think Mage the Awakening and Changeling the Lost would be the next easiest to add to the mix. Mage has a good "Dresden" flavor to it as its really a "street level" Mage game rather than the "world shaking game" the original Mage The Ascension often spiraled into. Changeling is just an outstanding mystical game that I can't recommend highly enough.

Of the remaining core games Vampire, Werewolf and Promethean, I would say that incorporating them into a mixed game becomes more problematic the more you stick with the core setting and mechanics. It's not that it can't be done, just that you start running into more problems associated with power scale and style of play. If you want to take a look at a city that is already set up with a mix of genres, check out World of Darkness: Chicago.

I hope that helps.

 

[Crothian]

It works much better then the older games do. The mechancis are meant to be the same which really helps out. A Vampire though is not equal to a human, and really shouldn't be. There are books for the mortal line though that can give humans abilities that border on the supernatural and keep things a bit more even. Or when all else fails there is Armory for the big guns!!

 

[ValhallaGH]

Has anyone else tried anything like this? Will it work at all? Or if you've used a different system for something like this, what was it?

I've played in a couple of games that mixed and matched from the new WoD. The results were varied. Much of this stemmed from the fact that all the races were balanced internally rather than against the other races. The rest came from the fact that my Storytellers still thought in D&D terms, where characters are expected to take injuries every round of combat.

Humans: Simple rules, fully covered by the core book. The most balanced and easily grasped of the races, but also the weakest. Still, a well-equipped human, with a good plan and the time to implement it can take down anything the rules allow for.

Mages: If caught by surprise, mages are as squishy and vulnerable as any normal human. However, mages are rarely caught off guard and are very powerful. Mages probably have the widest disparity in power and utility, between campaigns and individual characters. Whoever is running the game will need to read over and approve any spells the mages want to learn, just to be prepared to accept the wackiness of their shenanigans.

Vampires: Very tough, very social, and great at either infiltration or combat (or both if very experienced). I don't like vampires, but that's simply because I don't like vampires; their mechanics are pretty solid and vampires are one of the more consistent races in my experience.

Werewolves: The winners of any straight-forward combat, werewolves are the combat-characters of a multi-race story. All werewolves are good at combat due to their shape-shifting, and most are better because of the skills that fit all werewolves. Oddly, the nWoD made me feel like I was cheating when I shifted to Gauru (big, scary hybrid) form, a sensation I never had with the oWoD.

Prometheans: These are really odd characters. Most aren't very useful in any sort of social encounter, but they can totally alter any physical challenge, and a surprising number of intellectual or skill-based encounters. They do require a lot of support systems and recovery time, making them almost as big a pain as humans for getting them healed up.

Changelings: These are weird. They're about as varied as mages, though without as wide a disparity of power levels. The stories for them get downright strange, as do many of the characters.

Hunters: Humans plus, hunters can actually take down many super-natural threats, even with a bad plan or insufficient prep time. However, they are still human and must use some sort of planning to survive in a state where they can return to base. They aren't as balanced as normal humans but they are still pretty good.


Overall, you can combine the disciplines. Just be prepared to offer regular humans a good bit more experience so they can actually be useful to the team.

Good luck to you and your table.

 

[Achan hiArusa]

The only really mixed game I ran was a Bughunters game using nWoD. I had a Bishop like synthetic that was run using some of the Promethean rules, a Psychic from Second Sight, a normal human officer, and three synths who owe more to the Bughunters game than WoD (+1 to all physicals and mentals (max 6) and +1 Health). It ran pretty well execpt that the psychic kept powergaming (Girl gamer, go figure). But it ran really well as a game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There's no question about the quality of the WoD fluff- its pretty good, overall.

I remember trying to mix-n-match with oWoD- which didn't work- and don't see that the nWoD has significantly improved on that. Monte Cook's take on it may be somewhat better.

However, what I'd do is get my hands on the WoD books I want to use, and run the game in a system I like. If you go that route and don't have them already, you could probably pick up a set of oWoD at a deep discount from some book reseller (since the mechanics wouldn't be an issue).

 

[Derren]

Oddly, the nWoD made me feel like I was cheating when I shifted to Gauru (big, scary hybrid) form, a sensation I never had with the oWoD.

Wouldn't that be the Crinos form and not Gauru? Gauru is, I think, the name Werewolves call themselves.