D&D 5E Advice on downtime feat training

[Obeliske]

I appreciate that people want to see things as ongoing training however in many cases it doesn't make sense ie. the fighter who does sword and board gains a level and decides to take two weapon fighting, we've all seen these circumstance and most people just hand wave it. However my group wants more roleplay, as such I'm not terribly worried about balance as that's something that is my job ass gm to ensure still exists and tbh I could case less if the monsters are balanced vs the party, as long as the party is balanced against itself and everybody is having fun what's the issue.

Anyway, thanks ArwensDaughter are Rhenny, that topic you linked Arwen is incredibly helpful and Rhenny I really like the thought of paying for a more intensive training, the DC idea hadn't occurred to me. A little bit on what we've given some thought to so far. IRL when we were in school you generally learned a language in an hour a day for 200ish days. Obvious conversion is obvious and we can attach a price for that - sticking with the rulebook that would be 200 hours of training and 200 gold which honestly seems pretty fair.

The nice thing about hourly is it's easier for people to say "While I'm in town today I attends class/school/training for x time.". Which would allow people to accumulate xp towards their goal at their own pace. Some people may want to use that time for learning a language or proficiency while others may want to spend that time getting to know townsfolk and rp more. Overall allowing people to have more roleplay imo. We've decided pretty much anything is trainable at this point and have a few things figured out.

-Skills, tools, and languages will cost 200g and 200 hours of training
-Spells will be learnable using the normal rules or you can learn a spell not on your list provided it is the same type of spell you can cast (arcane casters learn arcane spells, divine learn divine) by buying a scroll of the spell and studying it for 200 hrs, training time can be cut down if you can find an actual trainer but at the cost of a gp increase.
-We're looking for a fair way to implement feat training.

I'm thinking doubling the time investment and removing the feat that gives prof in three skills is a good way to keep training for feats viable. At the end of the day the group does want feats to be an uncommon thing so if I were to double the time taken and say triple the cost this would put feat training out of reach at early levels, mid level and high level the time constraints would make the gaining of feats something rare as well. What do you think? Also I like the thought of including a more demanding training regime at the cost of increased training speed as well. What do you think of the following?

-600g + 400hrs to learn a feat
- can choose to make checks with an geometrical cost increase to decrease the time investment ie. take half the time for double the cost
- for each quarter time lost add a dc to see if you've grasped the material at the increased rate, dc=5 per ie. training feat "moderately armored"
takes 600g and 400 hours no dc
takes 300 hours at a dc 5 (half prof bonus to check) at a cost of 900g
takes 200 hours at a dc 10 (half prof bonus to check) at a cost of 1200g
etc
-failed check indicates an increase in training time by 1/8 (the smallest increment capable of training, and time can be increased as far as the default which receives no check) and a payment of 1/8 initial price as the player would be defaulting on the initial agreement with the NPC.

It's a little wordy but it should be clear enough for players to follow and allows for training in game during downtime. What do you think of balance (again not worried about monster balance more from a roleplay perspective) does it look like it's easily exploitable? Not accessible enough? What are your thoughts?

 

[Obeliske]

I'm gonna do a quick bump on this as I'd like to get some opinions before I present it to my group on Thursday.-

 

[Rhenny]

I like your idea about using hours as the system of measurement.

The key is to make sure that you provide enough balance in terms of cost and time vs. benefit so that PCs can't load up on feats. What you suggest could work, but the best way to find out is to try it out with your group. Let them know it is something you want to test and they can help by giving you feedback.

One worry I have for any system/set of rules in a campaign that I run is that it becomes too complex and cumbersome. I'd also worry that if the costs did not prohibit it, some players would tell the DM that they'd like to spend 3 years training so they can get 2 or 3 feats. That's why in my version I sent earlier, I included the chance for bad things to happen (not game ending things, but some unpleasant results nontheless).

 

[Ath'kethin]

I think it's funny that you use the argument "my group wants more roleplay" to justify adding unnecessary mechanics instead of just, you know, requiring them to roleplay. If your sword and board fighter wants to pick up the two weapon fighting feat, great. A simple mention that he is working toward it and practicing sets it up. No new complexity needed.

But it's your game. If what you're proposing works, run with it.

 

[Ed Laprade]

They are called EXPERIENCE points for a reason.

 

[Satyrn]

Rather than making downtime training rules, I'd have the players declare what they're gonna take a level early.

That is, when I gain my 3rd level I declare that at level 4 my gnome will be taking another level in battlemaster and that I will be selecting Magic Adept as my feat. At some point during play before 4th level I could then mention I'm checking out the party wizard's spellbook, talking shop with the warlock or praying and meditating on the divine nature of the universe. Or even just assume that's happening if there's no decent chance to roleplay this minor thing or I can't come up with an interesting way to do so. But because I've mentioned a level earlier what I will be taking, I've created the sense that I've roleplayed my training.

Also, doing this will work for everything, from selecting a new class to multiclass into to which spells I scribe into my spellbook if I'm a wizard. Everything will feel like it comes with training behind it.

 

[Obeliske]

I like your idea about using hours as the system of measurement.

The key is to make sure that you provide enough balance in terms of cost and time vs. benefit so that PCs can't load up on feats. What you suggest could work, but the best way to find out is to try it out with your group. Let them know it is something you want to test and they can help by giving you feedback.

One worry I have for any system/set of rules in a campaign that I run is that it becomes too complex and cumbersome. I'd also worry that if the costs did not prohibit it, some players would tell the DM that they'd like to spend 3 years training so they can get 2 or 3 feats. That's why in my version I sent earlier, I included the chance for bad things to happen (not game ending things, but some unpleasant results nontheless).

Thanks, we primarily run premades for the sake of simplicity and time (a four hour block every Thursday) so downtime isn't generally something that we happen to have a lot of. I figure on a day off a player could get 8 hours of training in and on days where they can adventure generally 1-2 hours. Meaning they would probably only get 3-4 feats per character per campaign keeping them roughly in line with what they would normally get (though now they would end up getting both feats and API's making them stronger then the bad guys "oh teh noes!"). I'm seriously worried about bloat as well we already have two other house rules (Paladin lay on hands class feature is a bonus action when self targeting, thrown weapons have the ammunition special rules). But we all want a little more realism and I don't want the power level to get to out of hand or combat takes a backseat to rp completely.

 

[Rhenny]

Check out this week's Unearthed Arcana at WoTC. Good timing! I haven't read it yet, but I'll take a look soon.

 

[Obeliske]

Check out this week's Unearthed Arcana at WoTC. Good timing! I haven't read it yet, but I'll take a look soon.

HAH! Great timing eh Gonna give this a read and see if there's anything useful for me Thanks for the heads up Rhenny!

EDIT: Well I red through it and while it's fantastic (and definitely something I'm using) it's not helpful for my training questions but I enjoy their training stuff anyway