AEG Loses Stargate SG-1!!!

[King of Old School]

Hehehe. The "collectible rules" model. Now THAT is how one should market RPG in this competitive market of "collectible" games.

With all due respect, there are fans that like more Spycraft products as much as those who like D&D-labeled products.

First, if you're seriously suggesting that Spycraft has as many fans as D&D, that's more than a little silly and even AEG would tell you so. If you're not, then your statement is void of meaning -- every game has some fans, even games that crash and burn out of the market in utter commercial failure have a handful of fans. So what?

As to your comparison, you don't have to buy Eberron or Forgotten Realms products to get D&D rules elements that are core to the fantasy genre; nor as a general rule are D&D supplements dependent on one another, such that to use much of the content of Supplement B you have to have purchased Supplement A. Spycraft is guilty of both of these things in spades, and even writers for the line will admit as much. This should come as no surprise, as it has been AEG's publishing model for years. And as I've said elsewhere, I don't begrudge anyone the right to make a living but it's a surefire way to make me lose interest in a line I would otherwise support. There are certainly people who accept this publishing strategy, but there are just as certainly people who disdain it and I'm not at all convinced that the former outnumber the latter.

KoOS

 

[Ranger REG]

First, if you're seriously suggesting that Spycraft has as many fans as D&D, that's more than a little silly and even AEG would tell you so. If you're not, then your statement is void of meaning -- every game has some fans, even games that crash and burn out of the market in utter commercial failure have a handful of fans. So what?

I didn't say that. I said there are fans that have the same level of preference and desire for Spycraft products as fans who prefer more D&D products. I didn't say anything about number, just their preferences.

 

[King of Old School]

I didn't say that. I said there are fans that have the same level of preference and desire for Spycraft products as fans who prefer more D&D products. I didn't say anything about number, just their preferences.

Ummm... okay. I'm not sure that this has any relevance to a criticism of how AEG structures the Spycraft product line, burying generic rules piecemeal inside setting-specific supplements and creating cascading dependencies between supplements. What was your point, exactly?

KoOS

 

[Ranger REG]

Ummm... okay. I'm not sure that this has any relevance to a criticism of how AEG structures the Spycraft product line, burying generic rules piecemeal inside setting-specific supplements and creating cascading dependencies between supplements. What was your point, exactly?

As with everything, all you need is the main/core rulebook. Anything else is extras, but fans will buy them, anyway. At least their class splatbooks for Spycraft are more appealing than WotC's Complete line for D&D, which I rated them as mediocre overall (I still have not reconciled with that 3.5e Samurai character class in CW).

 

[King of Old School]

As with everything, all you need is the main/core rulebook. Anything else is extras, but fans will buy them, anyway. At least their class splatbooks for Spycraft are more appealing than WotC's Complete line for D&D, which I rated them as mediocre overall (I still have not reconciled with that 3.5e Samurai character class in CW).

But they didn't put martial arts or superscience or Bondian gambling -- all of which I'd consider core for what purports to be a cinematic espionage and modern-action RPG -- in a class splatbook for the generic Spycraft line. They put all of those in Shadowforce Archer books, which are an extremely setting-specific line... and last time I checked, a line which was cancelled because not enough fans bought them anyway.

The only way your comparison would be at all relevant would be if Wizards had put the rules for magic item creation in Magic of Faerun, the rules for mounted combat in Knights of Faerun, and the rules for unarmed grappling in Big Burly Men of Faerun, all in an attempt to encourage sales of FR supplements. But they don't, because it's spectacularly bad product design if you want to sell to anyone other than completists (and I think any company will tell you that completists are a minority of those who buy any corebook).

KoOS

 

[Ranger REG]

But they didn't put martial arts or superscience or Bondian gambling -- all of which I'd consider core for what purports to be a cinematic espionage and modern-action RPG -- in a class splatbook for the generic Spycraft line. They put all of those in Shadowforce Archer books, which are an extremely setting-specific line... and last time I checked, a line which was cancelled because not enough fans bought them anyway.

They're probably repackaging the material now that they no longer have a setting to call their own, except for Dark Inheritance but it is being published by an outside company.

Give them a buzz.

 

[wingsandsword]

People here have struck on my biggest problem with the Spycraft RPG, it's "Collectable RPG" model.

I bought the original Spycraft book when it came out because the idea of a cinematic espionage/technothriller RPG sounded really cool, and it used d20 so it was based on some rules that I knew already worked well.

But then I realized how incomplete the core rules were. There were no "NPC" classes for henchmen and goons, no prestige classes for special niches, no real options for playing martial artists/ninjas, scientists, scholars. How would you write up Jack Ryan with just the core book? Not to mention that if you didn't already know firearms well, the stats for guns were practically useless (grouping them by purely technical specifications with no real descriptions).

Then they started to come out with sourcebooks to fill in the gaps. One sourcebook for scientists/scholars, another for martial artists, another for psychics, another for this, another for that. I realized I'd have to outlay a significant amount of money just to get what I thought should be the "core" rules. I felt like I had to collect all the various rulebooks just to get a single bit of rules from each one that I would need, and I wasn't going to spend $20 just to get one class I wanted or one mechanic I liked.

The end result being that I use d20 Modern for espionage/technothriller games, and I just swap in some feats and equipment and miscellaneous rules from Spycraft (like the Budget/Gadget point system).

 

[Greatwyrm]

People here have struck on my biggest problem with the Spycraft RPG, it's "Collectable RPG" model.

It's only as bad as you want it to be. I ran a weekly Spycraft game for about 6 months using hardly any of the extra sourcebooks. Even then, I mostly used the equipment from them, not the new optional rules. Spycraft is a complete game in itself.

 

[Acid_crash]

Well, as far as Stargate goes, I hope Eden does not get it, I hope Mongoose does not get it (but they most likely will - they seem to gobble up licenses faster than I can breath), and I hope that WotC does not get it (they would have the money and resources to definately get it if they wanted to).

Personally, I hope Green Ronin gets it, see how well they do with a more non fantasy setting. Mutants and Masterminds aside, all they've done is fantasy (and Spaceship Zero I think, but never did check it out so I don't know what it's like). But, GR probably won't get it because of money, but I bet they'd do the best in twisting the d20 system and mold it to fit with the television show and perhaps even do it OGL without the d20 license involved.

That's just what I hope.

 

[C. Baize]

http://www.alderac.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12433

its official.

Now off to see if Eden grabs it.

hoping!

If someone does a D20 Modern/Future version of it, I'm buying it.