Aerenal vs Argonessen: why?

[Aaron]

Although the destruction of Xen’drik was monumental, some of the continent’s denizens did survive. While the dragons brooded, elf refugees established the nation of Aerenal. Thousands of years of research into necromancy and the energies of Argonnessen produced The Undying Court, an alliance of deathless elves with a gestalt power that rivaled the Overlords of the first age.
Since that time—nearly twenty-five thousand years before the founding of Galifar—dragons and elves have been at war. The tides of strife ebb and flow, and centuries might pass between battles … but sooner or later the dragons return to fight once more. The basis of this age-old conflict, and its conduct, is another of the mysteries of Argonnessen. [...]
Those who study this puzzling behavior ask: Why not? What motivates this seemingly endless struggle? If the dragons truly wish to eliminate the elves, why don’t they commit their full forces to the task? If they don’t care enough to do so, why do they continue to fight in such piecemeal fashion?

The Dragons of Eberron book provides a bunch of theories about the truth behind the Aerenal - Argonnessen war, but I find none of them quite appealing.

So here I am, asking what's the answer you have found in your campaign for this "puzzling behavior".

 

[Nymrohd]

I like one of the options set forth in the book. The dragons apply constant pressure to Argonessen to keep their military well trained so that they can face a future catastrophe.

 

[Aaron]

I like one of the options set forth in the book. The dragons apply constant pressure to Argonessen to keep their military well trained so that they can face a future catastrophe.

If that's the reason, why they don't warn the elves directly?

 

[Klaus]

If that's the reason, why they don't warn the elves directly?

Because then they wouldn't make a joint effort against a common enemy, and could fracture into myriad elf states.

 

[Aaron]

Because then they wouldn't make a joint effort against a common enemy, and could fracture into myriad elf states.

I can't see why they would act as you describe. They have been a monolithic force for thousands of years, united against the Argonnessen threat: why would they fracture against an even more sinister menace?

 

[MarkB]

How about this:

Elves, especially those of Aerenal with their preserved-through-not-exactly-undeath elders, are one of the few races long-lived and wise enough to be able to gain a true perspective on the long-term plans of the dragons and the prophecy that guides them. The dragons have no particular animosity towards the elves, but they can't have outsiders observing their true plans and intentions too closely.

So periodically, they launch attacks upon the Aereni elves that serve as both a springboard and diversion for their real goal: The disruption of Elven recollections of Draconic activities through the destruction of records and the use of memory-modification magics upon their most senior elders, carried out via commando-style covert raids deep into Aereni territory.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Perhaps the Undying Court is stealing lfe energy (probably unknowingly) from Argonessen; maintaining the Undying Court is slowing down the maturity of dragons, or causing stillborn eggs and such like. A certain innate selfishness amongst dragons means that it is only those with direct ties to such an event causes them to take action, while others don't care yet since it isn't affecting them. Not worth an all out war, because it isn't affecting all of them, but always enough to irritate and cause skirmishes.

 

[Aaron]

How about this:

Elves, especially those of Aerenal with their preserved-through-not-exactly-undeath elders, are one of the few races long-lived and wise enough to be able to gain a true perspective on the long-term plans of the dragons and the prophecy that guides them. The dragons have no particular animosity towards the elves, but they can't have outsiders observing their true plans and intentions too closely.
So periodically, they launch attacks upon the Aereni elves that serve as both a springboard and diversion for their real goal: The disruption of Elven recollections of Draconic activities through the destruction of records and the use of memory-modification magics upon their most senior elders, carried out via commando-style covert raids deep into Aereni territory.

I like this perspective, but wouldn't it push the dragons towards a more "definitive" course of actions?

I mean, the DoE book even suggests that they could opt to eradicate humans in order to prevent the Quori return on Eberron!

Perhaps the Undying Court is stealing lfe energy (probably unknowingly) from Argonessen; maintaining the Undying Court is slowing down the maturity of dragons, or causing stillborn eggs and such like. A certain innate selfishness amongst dragons means that it is only those with direct ties to such an event causes them to take action, while others don't care yet since it isn't affecting them. Not worth an all out war, because it isn't affecting all of them, but always enough to irritate and cause skirmishes.

This is another interesting idea, but how could I justify the "no negotiations" attitude of the dragons?

Couldn't they openly show to the elves the damage they are suffering?


P.S.: I'm not playing the "nay-man" here: I'm just concerned with the internal consistency of my world, playing with very exigent players.

 

[Klaus]

I can't see why they would act as you describe. They have been a monolithic force for thousands of years, united against the Argonnessen threat: why would they fracture against an even more sinister menace?

A sinister menace they hear of only from the same force that wiped out the giants of Xen'drik? There are bound to be disagreements over how to respond to that (as seen in the Valenar/Mark of Death incidents, disagreements aren't unheard of in Aerenal). By presenting a more concrete, tangible threat, the dragons can not only force the elves into preparing, but they can also guide that preparedness.

 

[Nymrohd]

Also the elves are not a monolithic force. The Aereni cohabit with the Tairnadal (and the latter seem to be doing the lion's share of the fighting). Also a society built on houses suggests a level of divisiveness.

Another idea could be that some dragons fear the strengthening of Irian's connection to Eberron. Most are not concerned because Irian is a largely benevolent plane, ascending to Siberys, but a few purists see any extended planar connection as a danger. They have no reason yet to wipe the Aereni, but they attack them periodically to wean the number of deathless.

One thing is for certain. If the council of Argonessen viewed Aerenal as a threat, they would have assaulted and destroyed it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

This is another interesting idea, but how could I justify the "no negotiations" attitude of the dragons?

Couldn't they openly show to the elves the damage they are suffering?

Why negotiate with lesser beings?

It depends upon how you view dragons, I tend to think of them as powerful, prideful, full of primal emotions. Not exactly diplomat material.

OR, it is the kind of secret that you might not want to reveal to the elves in case they can find out a way to weaponise the procedure. Best to just keep their numbers in check periodically.

 

[Nymrohd]

Historically, the dragons of eberron do not negotiate. They did not attempt to stop the giants from using world-shattering magic against the rebellion; they just wiped them. The majority of dragons view other mortals little better than we look at our pets.

 

[MarkB]

I like this perspective, but wouldn't it push the dragons towards a more "definitive" course of actions?

I mean, the DoE book even suggests that they could opt to eradicate humans in order to prevent the Quori return on Eberron!

There is an easy answer to that available with the dragons - almost too easy, as far as mysterious motivations go: The Draconic Prophecy.

According to some dragons' interpretations of the Prophecy, Aerenal will have a part to play in the unfolding of the Prophecy. Its exact role is disputed, but even so, this is enough to make destroying Aerenal outright a last resort. So long as other methods are effective, they'll restrict themselves to those measures, in order to keep Aerenal 'in play' in case it is needed later.

If you go with that, then perhaps it's specifically the possibility of Aerenal finding out too much about their involvement in the Prophecy that the dragons are guarding against. Every time an Undying scholar comes too close to that knowledge, they launch another offensive.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

How about this possibility:

When the elves fled Xen'drik it was a time of chaos and it was pretty much a case of "grab whatever you can lay your hands on and run." As such, the elves have a whole bunch of arcane knowledge they've never really properly examined, or got misfiled during the setting up of their new home. Included in their grabbing are the seeds of the planet-damaging spell that brought the dragons down on the giants.

The elves don't know this however, and since the Aerenal are generally conformists rather than innovators, they don't make the leap of reasoning needed to put the seeds together. But, every once and a while, some elf does make that intuitive leap, and the dragons' mystic sensors pick up a specific 'ping'. Then, it's off to 'war'.

The dragons use the cover of the war to find that particular elf and wipe him/her out, along with their research. The chaotic nature of the fighting has so far kept the Undying Court unaware (or are they?) of how close they have come to unlocking something that would bring the whole wrath of Argonnessen down upon them.

The dragons only fight long enough to make sure the research is stopped, then lose interest.



Of course, an opposing idea, that the dragons only attack the elves as part of scholarly debates to test out different theories of the Draconic Prophecy adds a certain amount of deliciously sick irony to the whole war.

"Hmm. I'm not sure the evidence backs up your theory."

"Well it's either two more centuries of careful experimentation and rereading vast conflicting tracts of the Prophecy, or we can go hit the elves and see what shakes out."

"I hate lab work. Let's roll."



Or worse, the dragons' attacks are merely them going for take-out between centuries-long debates.

"You feeling like Tairnadal, or Aerenal tonight?"

"Aerenal. Those Tairnadal horses give me gas."

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Why negotiate with lesser beings?

Who negotiates with food? Perhaps elves are simply crunchy and taste good with ketchup. What the elves frame as a "war" is merely dragons hunting for sport -- elves making reasonably entertaining game animals.

 

[Aaron]

There is an easy answer to that available with the dragons - almost too easy, as far as mysterious motivations go: The Draconic Prophecy.

Thta's what I tried to avoid: using the Prophecy as a universal plot-hole-solution.

A sinister menace they hear of only from the same force that wiped out the giants of Xen'drik? There are bound to be disagreements over how to respond to that (as seen in the Valenar/Mark of Death incidents, disagreements aren't unheard of in Aerenal). By presenting a more concrete, tangible threat, the dragons can not only force the elves into preparing, but they can also guide that preparedness.

Good point.

Why negotiate with lesser beings?

It depends upon how you view dragons, I tend to think of them as powerful, prideful, full of primal emotions. Not exactly diplomat material.

OR, it is the kind of secret that you might not want to reveal to the elves in case they can find out a way to weaponise the procedure. Best to just keep their numbers in check periodically.

Another good point.

Historically, the dragons of eberron do not negotiate. They did not attempt to stop the giants from using world-shattering magic against the rebellion; they just wiped them. The majority of dragons view other mortals little better than we look at our pets.

Third good point...I'm crushing under the weight of your points!

How about this possibility:

When the elves fled Xen'drik it was a time of chaos and it was pretty much a case of "grab whatever you can lay your hands on and run." As such, the elves have a whole bunch of arcane knowledge they've never really properly examined, or got misfiled during the setting up of their new home. Included in their grabbing are the seeds of the planet-damaging spell that brought the dragons down on the giants.

The elves don't know this however, and since the Aerenal are generally conformists rather than innovators, they don't make the leap of reasoning needed to put the seeds together. But, every once and a while, some elf does make that intuitive leap, and the dragons' mystic sensors pick up a specific 'ping'. Then, it's off to 'war'.

The dragons use the cover of the war to find that particular elf and wipe him/her out, along with their research. The chaotic nature of the fighting has so far kept the Undying Court unaware (or are they?) of how close they have come to unlocking something that would bring the whole wrath of Argonnessen down upon them.

The dragons only fight long enough to make sure the research is stopped, then lose interest.

I like this idea. It doesn't involve the Prophecy, and it's selfish enough to be compatible with the not-so-good nature of the Eberron dragons.

 

[Teemu]

Doesn't the (3.5) campaign setting book hint that the dragons would destroy Aerenal if they could but the power of the Undying Court prevents it? That the deathless wield amazing power on the island because of the manifest zones but can't really extend it elsewhere except through the priests. I think they also point out that the Undying are actually older than dragons because they're immortal and dragons are not.

 

[megamania]

There is an easy answer to that available with the dragons - almost too easy, as far as mysterious motivations go: The Draconic Prophecy.

According to some dragons' interpretations of the Prophecy, Aerenal will have a part to play in the unfolding of the Prophecy. Its exact role is disputed, but even so, this is enough to make destroying Aerenal outright a last resort. So long as other methods are effective, they'll restrict themselves to those measures, in order to keep Aerenal 'in play' in case it is needed later.

If you go with that, then perhaps it's specifically the possibility of Aerenal finding out too much about their involvement in the Prophecy that the dragons are guarding against. Every time an Undying scholar comes too close to that knowledge, they launch another offensive.

An even better possibility

 

[Elephant]

Doesn't the (3.5) campaign setting book hint that the dragons would destroy Aerenal if they could but the power of the Undying Court prevents it? That the deathless wield amazing power on the island because of the manifest zones but can't really extend it elsewhere except through the priests. I think they also point out that the Undying are actually older than dragons because they're immortal and dragons are not.

I like this, but I'd add another wrinkle: The dragons could muster sufficient power to wipe out the elves, but that would fatally weaken them somewhere in southern Argonnessen, where some other threat lurks.

Or maybe they just aren't well-organized enough to muster the forces necessary to deal with the elves. Once in a while, some hotheads get cocky and fly over for a skirmish, but no one is in a position to organize the 2000 dragons it would take to actually flatten the island.

 

[Aaron]

And the winner is....

How about this:

Elves, especially those of Aerenal with their preserved-through-not-exactly-undeath elders, are one of the few races long-lived and wise enough to be able to gain a true perspective on the long-term plans of the dragons and the prophecy that guides them. The dragons have no particular animosity towards the elves, but they can't have outsiders observing their true plans and intentions too closely.

The Undying Court: The deathless elves of the Undying Court are among the only beings old enough and wise enough to decipher the Draconic Prophecy. What remains unclear is whether the elves wish to use the Prophecy for their own ends -- or to destroy it to cripple the destiny of the dragons. This is thought to be the cause of the perennial conflicts between the dragons and Aerenal.

Taken from The Draconic Prophecy Dragonshard.