After years of gaming...

[geosapient]

I'm surprised...

I thank everyone here for the support. I admit that I had expected it to be more split between myself and the DM.

I have been saying a lot lately that there is always another side to every story. In this case there would be 4 or 5 (depending if you would count the DM and his wife separately) stories. I'm not saying that I was without fault and I'm sure things could have been resolved better (hindsight is always better).

As for the bow, I physically didn't meet the requirements to use it since I only had an 11 strength also, but I had just gained access to 2nd level druid spells so I could have used Bull's Strength to meet them. It really just bothers me that I had stated that I was keeping it since I would meet the requirements shortly and then the rogue starts using what's on my sheet just when I have the ability to meet them. And it wasn't even taken in game. It seems that it was decided during the week that there was a bow not being used and it was taken then.

I think about running a game every once in awhile, but I tried it years ago and found out quickly that I don't have the ability to cope with chaotic environments. My mind was too structured back then and it has only gotten worse. I try to think of different ways that certain situations might go but invariably the players would do the most outrageous or ludicrous thing that they could think of.

"You see a pool that looks to be made of black viscous material.

Sit. 1 "I'll go cautiously toward it to get a better look.

Sit. 2 "I'll going to go into the pool to see if there might be anything in there.

What really happens "I'm going to go up to the pool and take a drink.

Don't these people understand that their character is a living, breathing, thinking person that should weigh situations somewhat rationally? Would any of these people in real life go to take a drink out of a pool of black viscous liquid? How does one handle a situation like this? My mind was still reeling from that one days later.

 

[Henry]

First of all, congrats on your break. Sometimes, it does take a break to see a fresh perspective on life in general, not just gaming, and if the circumstances around gaming EVER causes you physical stress, it's time to step back and evaluate it, and put it in perspective.

Don't these people understand that their character is a living, breathing, thinking person that should weigh situations somewhat rationally? Would any of these people in real life go to take a drink out of a pool of black viscous liquid? How does one handle a situation like this? My mind was still reeling from that one days later.

The thing to remember there, though, is that

(A) Some people really are that careless in life (and when someone makes the news from it, many people call it the scurrilous name "the Darwin Awards.") Some people pay the price for their lack of caution, and others go on to greatness from their luck and sense of timing.

(B) Since D&D is a game at its heart, some people love to live vicariously through the game and try things they'd never do in real life due to self-preservation and common sense. Many of us want to be the ones who throw caution to the wind and find out what it feels like when they get lucky from it. For this reason, I REALLY wouldn't take it too seriously, because we can be as cautious as we want in real life, but many players want to use the game as an escape for a bit, whether for a bit of vicarious butt-kicking, or exploring what it's like to be a daredevil, or to acquire powers such as they'd never have in reality. (After all, if they were REALLY that interested in self-preservation, what the hell are they doing adventuring in the first place? )

 

[Ds Da Man]

Well, I disagree that its all about the players, but it is all about fun. My group has had numerous arguements about the same such crap, and have damn near come to blows over this stupid crap. Tumble is actually one of the house-ruled areas we have agreed on. We have made it a roll, players tumble vs. creatures spot. Normally it still ends up with the tumbler getting by ridiculously easy, but at least make it a test between affected creatures, and not just an automatic success.

Either way, I know as a DM it gets frustrating that everytime an action happens, theres a rules arguement. I don't remember every rule, and every skill DC, and generally just decide on a DC depending on how experienced the monster/enemy is.

 

[Arkhandus]

I agree with those that say you made the right choice for now. If participating in a game was giving you that much stress, something was definitely wrong with the group's dynamic or how the individuals behaved at the game table. Get some extra rest and play some less stressful games.

Considering that your group seemed to be a bad one, you should try gaming again sometime with a new group, probably with a more laid-back style or just better rules-fu (either should reduce rules arguments a lot). Find a DM/GM that's more inclined towards the story and ruling in the PCs' favor, or one that just prefers having fun rather than being overlord of his imaginary domain. I've gamed with a few bad DMs before and it really is a souring experience. Maybe try a simpler game like Castles & Crusades first, just so the GM/DM/CK or other players can't argue about rules (when they're as lean and broad-brushed as C&C, arguments should be few and short).

Regarding the "Johnson": Suuuuure, we believe ya chummer.

 

[William drake]

I've finally called it quits. The week before Sunday, April 1st was the last I will game with the group I was in.

The last straw was a uh... discussion on tumbling.

Monk: "I'm tumbling into melee with the ogre. I got a 19 on the check."

*Johnson: "You tumble in but the org makes an attack of oppurtunity."

Me: "?" "A 19 should be enough to get him through the squares without an attack of oppurtunity."

Johnson: "No, he needs a 25 or better."

Me: "He's not trying to go through his occupied squares just his threatening squares. The chart shows that if he was trying to go through the spaces that the creature takes he would need a 25+. But, he's only trying to get to the creature."

Monk: "Yeah, I'm only trying to get to him not through him."

Johnson: "FINE! You get to him but are unable to make an attack. We'll see if you're still standing there after he goes!"

Me (again): "That's only 10'. He has a 50' move even at 1/2 speed with the tumble this should only be a move action not full round. (Note: I'm not an expert with tumble so maybe tumble is a full round actio whenever you use it. That just makes it sound like a horrible skill.)

Johnson: *Holds up a book and slaps it (the book)* "What does this say?"

Me and Monk: "It's the DM's Guide."

Johnson: "Who am I?"

Me: "..."

Monk: "*DM's name*"

Johnson: "That's right and what I say goes!"

Me: "Whatever..."

That was close to how that discussion went. If it was only that day (and the only issue that day) I might have still been in the group.

Another issue that day (I was silent for this one) was the rogue (the DM's wife) pulled out a bow for the first time and used it. Since she hadn't carried a bow before and we hadn't been in a town for some time I asked where she got it.

When she said that it was the bow that was found awhile back (the Mighty composite longbow STR 15) I checked my paper and sure enough it was right where I had put it. On my character sheet listed underneath my only magic item, the Quiver of Ehlonna.

How she ended up with the bow that I said I couldn't use at the moment but would keep because I would be able to soon (Druid/Ranger) is beyond me. But that bothered me less than the fact that she only had an 11 strength and was using it without penalty (in melee none-the-less) without provoking attacks of oppurtunity while I always had to cast Arrowmind on myself.

Anyway...

Sunday, April 1st - Johnson and his wife show up

Me: "I'm sorry, Johnson but I must ask you to leave. There's your mat and figures."

Johnson: "What? Why? Is this because of last week?"

Me: "Last week was just the last of a long line of problems. And please, feel free to take any snacks and soda that's here"

Johnson: "No, we brought those for everybody."

Me: (Whatever)

Johnson: "Well, if you change your mind just let us know."

Me: "Maybe sometime in the future I'll game again, but not right now."

Johnson: "See you later."

Me: "Have yourself a good day."

We've been 'friends' too long to just throw it all away. But if I game again it won't be with anyone from that group again (except the monk - he's my brother).

Since then I've been sleeping better. I haven't woken up with my hands buried in the matress with their circulation being cut off (It's an odd feeling to see your hands buried inches into a firm matress and not be able to actually feel the matress).

I've had time to work on my console and computer gaming. When the weather gets better I'll have time to get some yard work done (sometimes they didn't understand that I didn't have time to do much since I'm a night shift worker).

I feel free and without worry. I imagine that this is what it feels like to win the lottery - just to a lesser extent.

I hate breaking routine even to the point of having health problems, but I think this is one of the better descisions I've made. Since most of the people in the group were negative people I feel that I was becoming more negative myself.

* Johnson is referring to the uh... Shadowrun character that gives missions... Yeah, that's it...

Rules are rules, but I never game a damn for rules when it came to the FUN of the game. The comment he made "will see if your standing after he goes...." sounded like a threat to me. Its a game, and I'm sorry to say, that some times, people have to be reminded of that. yes, sound like perhaps that group wasn't good, and seems that they might have been taking up to much of your mental health to be bothered with. I will say this, dont let gaming go...why not run yourown game, see how that feels. Might be that perhaps that is where you should be at this point. Ive found that sometimes gamers, who get mad at a Dm...is because perhaps they could be doing a better job at it.

In my game, I would've let you tumble into the fray...and since you said you only want to GET THERE..and not attack, that would have made it even more reasonable. Its like (I want to jump and grab hold of the wall's top.* not "I want to jump, flip and land ontop of the wall while....bla bla bla..I'm so cool" you see what I mean. Something was just wrong with your DM; to me, felxability is what makes for a good DM. I sometimes feel that once you get outside of a DM's conept: what he was ready for you to do, he will punish you, or beat you back into the box so that he can run the game as he planed it. Well, if that's the case, in my opinion...you should be a DM.

Good for you. Best of Luck.

Game On

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I have been saying a lot lately that there is always another side to every story.

There's always that.

"You see a pool that looks to be made of black viscous material.

Sit. 1 "I'll go cautiously toward it to get a better look.

Sit. 2 "I'll going to go into the pool to see if there might be anything in there.

What really happens "I'm going to go up to the pool and take a drink.

Don't these people understand that their character is a living, breathing, thinking person that should weigh situations somewhat rationally? Would any of these people in real life go to take a drink out of a pool of black viscous liquid?

Well, they might get more cautious with their next character, if the current one ceases to be a living, breathing, thinking person (poisonous substances can take those traits from lifeforms )

How does one handle a situation like this? My mind was still reeling from that one days later.

Well, you can either let it slide, or punish them ruthlessly or, and that usually works out best, go the middle way.

What I do (I'm often a big softie in those things): When a player announces a really unwise action or decision, I go windows on them: "Are you sure?" Sometimes, that raises some serious red flags ("DMs asking questions like that usually mean something") or even go as far as explain the situation in greater detail, out of the perspective of myself if I were their character ("So you find a pool of really nasty looking stuff and you want to drink it??").

If they insist on doing it, I let them go ahead and do it. I'm a big supporter of free will and freedom of choice - and of consequences. They want to take a drink of something really poisonous? I let them take it. And then I let them roll a fort save vs. poison.

I like how in RPGs you can do crazy things without the risk of personal harm (my characters have repeatedly fought dragons, but I myself was never stepped on, chewed on, incinerated, electrocuded, frozen, or anything else), but I don't like when the character's actions don't have any consequences - for good or for bad.

Railroading is one aspect of this: They might manage to defeat the BBEG by some great planning, innovative thinking (and of course, a second helping of dumb luck), but the land is still doomed because the DM intented it to be doomed all along.

The other is "wearing velvet gloves": Players can go berserk and do all kinds of crazy things (often happens in evil campaigns when too many players think that evil means marauding maniacs) without fear of repercussions. One extreme case was when in an evil game (I was a player), we found out that the DM was apparently unwilling to kill of characters for any reason, and he wasn't being subtly about it (He'd often ask players how many HPs their characters had, and if they were low, they weren't attacked). So we got it in our heads to test how far we could go (okay, one of the players wanted his character to die because he didn't like it and the DM refused to let him retire that character). So we went into Waterdeep (huge city in the Forgotten Realms, for those who don't know. Something like 130.000 people living there, including some of the most powerful characters of the Realms, and generally a watch that could watch after that place!) and started looting.

Watchmen arrived alright, and tried to fight us. But they were relatively low level, so it was not too hard to fend them off. Okay, you might think: He was giving us a warning shot. But When we decimated one group of watchmen, the next group wasn't stronger than the first. Noone saw fit to call the heavy cavalry, apparently. Maybe they intented to send wave after wave of men against us, until we ran empty (Zapp's Manoeuvre), but that was when we know without a doubt that our characters were effectively immortal.

Not good.

 

[rgard]

I've finally called it quits. The week before Sunday, April 1st was the last I will game with the group I was in.

<SNIP>

How she ended up with the bow that I said I couldn't use at the moment but would keep because I would be able to soon (Druid/Ranger) is beyond me. But that bothered me less than the fact that she only had an 11 strength and was using it without penalty (in melee none-the-less) without provoking attacks of oppurtunity while I always had to cast Arrowmind on myself.

<SNIP>

I agree with the early responses that you find a new DM. Life is too short to not have fun while playing a game.

The bow story reminded me of a similar situation. Back in 1e (1980) we were adventuring in some lich's fortress, trying kill him and take his stuff. On the way in the DM impressed us by describing the huge double front doors of the fortress as being made of 'Black Mithril' and 4" thick. Long story short, we got our butts kicked. On the way out, my MU decided we should steal the front doors to the fortress. We managed to get the doors off the hinges and into the MU's portable hole.

Now as far as I know, my MU has both front doors. Fast forward 20 years to 2000 and my friend Wes, (who was part of our game group in Ann Arbor, but didn't play that night) and I drive back to Michigan for a nostalgia trip and meet our friend Pat (whose Cleric was on the adventure.) We met Pat, were having a great time reminiscing about friends, the fun we had and the fun we had playing D&D. The story of the lich's doors comes up. Pat says, "yes, Fru (Cleric's name) had that door made into full plate, and some great weapons and still have some left over." I asked, "you have one of the doors?" Pat replied, "your MU got one and my Cleric got one."

It's too foggy now to remember the exact disposition of the doors as discussed, but both ended up on my character's sheet and one ended up on Pat's character's sheet.

So, it happens.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

As the DM I try to explain my position on something. If the players dont like it, I usually say Im trying to keep with the rules as they where intended or try and rule as how i think they ment it. But on the bright side, if it goes against you, it will go against the Foes too. While I dont think the DM should have to explain why he or she rules the way they do, I think for consistency purposes they should try.
Sounds like your DM could have at least tried to come to you half way. I never would have allowed my wife to get something extra, especially if she was gaking it off your character without you knowing.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I'll just add my voice to the chorus of people saying don't quit playing because of 1 bad DM. Find a new group and start having fun with roleplaying again. Don't let 1 bad group/GM ruin the whole hobby for you.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Infernal Teddy]

I'll just agree with everyone who said "find another GM" and / or "Try a different game". I quit on D&D about 6 months ago, and played a lot of nWoD, but I've just started feeling the itch again