Again with the Undead? OY!

[Alzrius]

Well, first, Oy in this case seems to be from the Yiddish phrase Oy Vey, loosely translated as O Woe, or Woe is me.

I grew up hearing Yiddish phrases like this, so I know where it comes from (I prefer "Oi gevalt" myself, it means "Oh heavens" and is usually a fearful/surprised exclamation).

"Oy" may be the more common writing, but "oi" is an accepted variant (that I think is more proper).

 

[Aaron L]

I just know "Oi" from punk lyrics, myself.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Originally (IIRC), Gary did say that mummies had a Positive Energy Plane connection back in the beginning of D&D. However, he's since recanted that (see Mongoose Publishing's Slayer's Guide to the Undead), which reflects the attitude of WotC as well.

I remember noticing that and thinking it very odd. I wondered if it was a typo, but it made it through more than one revision. At least I thought I saw the "typo" repeated in the Monstrous Compendium.

I did a quick search of the archives (where most of the Ask Gary Gygax threads are) but "mummy" didn't come up. Of course, search hasn't been working well lately... :\

Anyone knew if positive energy mummies were his intention back then? Has he ever spoke on the subject?

If it was intentional it would certainly muddle the relationship between an undead monster's alignment and the kind of energy that powers it.

 

[William Ronald]

I grew up hearing Yiddish phrases like this, so I know where it comes from (I prefer "Oi gevalt" myself, it means "Oh heavens" and is usually a fearful/surprised exclamation).

"Oy" may be the more common writing, but "oi" is an accepted variant (that I think is more proper).

Ah, I did not know. So, I made sure to translate the phrase. I am uncetain if oi is the more proper variant spelling.

Getting back on topic, I would argue that one reason many undead are evil may have something to do with their creation. Often, evil spellcasters create undead with spells, or undead are created when someone is killed by an undead creature. If a DM wants a non-evil undead, perhaps having a reasonable explanation for why the character is not evil could be useful.

For example, many ghost stories feature a spirit asking a mortal to fulfill some unfinished task. I can also see a ghost or other undead lingering on to actually complete a task -- for example, guarding a portal to another plane.

 

[Crothian]

Well, it is your all's game so if you want vampires with souls that are trying to repent for the centuries of sorrow and heartache they caused, do so.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

That's lame. The Lich is traditionally eeevville incarnate. "Good" in D&D has enough tool sin the box without coughing up a superpowered "Goal" for PC's who can't stomach the idea of being a "bad guy".

You want to be a Lich? Sacrifice something for it. I definitely wouldn;t allow a goody-goody character to both be a Lich and have it be "business-as-usual...because this is a special Lich" :\

Traditionally yes, always no.

I have a "good" lich with the party right now. He is travelling with them for reasons of his own and generally prfers to be left alone (they are on a ship bound for a distant continent). The lich's story is that he became so consumed with finding a solution to a nigh unsolvable problem that he became obssessed with it and simply didn't take heed when Death came calling. Now he has a new obssession - tied to the Age of Worms campaign in Dungeon.

While I am not 100% satisfied with hwo the "good" lich came out it does work for its intended purpose - giving the PCs a powerful patron to come to with questions. As long as they aren't trivial ones.

As you can tell I don't hold to the ideal that every intelligent, free willed undead has to automatically be evil. Most by their nature will become so over time but whose to say when you meet that recently freed vampire spawn? Maybe he hasn't even fed off a sentient being yet? Besides nothing messes up an undead hatin' ranger than a helpful, good aligned undead critter.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Well, it is your all's game so if you want vampires with souls that are trying to repent for the centuries of sorrow and heartache they caused, do so.

That sounds somewhat familiar....

 

[theodinheadbasher]

this is a special Lich" :\

that right there is the explination for the archlich. it isn't some run of the mill lich that people can simply turn themselves into. now I'm not completely sure of all the info on archliches, but im pretty sure they are pretty special.

and as for the elves, they are supposed to be incredibly good creatures, that generally CAN'T become undead. It is something that is a special circumstance. As far as I know, elven liches are generally a punishment by the Seldarine. They don't get to go to Arvandor, and are cursed with undeath. It isn't something that they would consiously choose. Now if some PC tried to "choose" to be an elven lich, that would be uncool and not allowed.

 

[Teflon Billy]

and as for the elves, they are supposed to be incredibly good creatures, that generally CAN'T become undead. It is something that is a special circumstance. As far as I know, elven liches are generally a punishment by the Seldarine. They don't get to go to Arvandor, and are cursed with undeath. It isn't something that they would consiously choose. Now if some PC tried to "choose" to be an elven lich, that would be uncool and not allowed.

...or alterately "another kind of 'special' lich"

 

[Nyeshet]

I tend to classify undead into two separate categories in my own campaigns. There are the Curst Undead, created by fiendish demi-deities thousands of years ago. These undead include creatures that feed off life to maintain their existence and tend to become feral when they are unable to feed for prolonged durations. Vampires, ghouls, etc.

I use a level-system for such (similar to age categories, I guess, since they are not balanced in power to class levels). They slowly grow into their abilities, and they can generally resist the hunger until level four - at which point they start receiving abilities and curses that make it impossible to resist. They can either willingly follow their downwardly spiralling path - in which they case they become Tainted in body and soul, or they can continue resisting - and go partially insane / feral as their spirit becomes trapped in a body no longer under their control. These are the vampires that die with a smile on their face as their spirit is finally freed of the horrific prison of flesh.

Prior to the fourth level their alignment is as normal, but after it is either evil (if they willingly choose to follow the corrupting path of their tainted hunger) or neutral (if they effectively become feral monsters of borderline sanity due to resisting the path and losing control of their body to their base instincts).

The second type of undead are those not curst with a hunger to feed off the living. They continue to have the same alignment they held in life, and they are typically made up of ghosts, revenants (similar to wights, but without Str drain or Spawn ability), etc. Zombies and Skeletons are treated as revenants or as animated objects (dependent on whether or not they have an Int score).

When I want to deal with horrific evil / dangerous zombies, I typically use ghouls instead. It better matches the current modern view of them, anyway (in movies such as Night of the Living Dead, in games such as Resident Evil, etc).