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D&D 5E Agile Parry + Dual Wielder AC

6ENow!

I don't debate opinions.
That's very stupid...

As actualy playing Kensei Monk I can say - Who want's use longsword, when, as monk, you need DEX high as possible. When you max STR and use longsword you loose so much AC that any feat can worth.
Use rapiers instead. With DWF it's possible. Than attack with kensei weapon rapier, as attack action, than unarmed strike as bonus action and you got +3 AC and second rapier is just death weight for bonus +1 AC
You should look in the mirror maybe? (j/k) ;)

For one thing, honestly, I didn't include rapiers because, quite frankly, we have not had them in our games since they beginning. Anyway, since it is a Monk weapon, you can use DEX instead of STR... Which is why I only have the longsword with STR at levels 1-2 before Kensei. :)

Now, you can't, RAW, gain the benefit of Agile Parry if you are making the unarmed strike as a bonus action, it must be part of the Attack action.

So, what's stupid now...? :unsure: And you're actually playing a Kensei... huh...
 

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@Snoring Rock

Let's look at your options... (assuming DEX 16).

Levels 1-2:

No TWF
Make a shortsword attack (monk weapon) and bonus unarmed strike. Damage d6+DEX and d4+DEX, for 12 damage average.

Using TWF
Make a shortsword attack (light weapon) and bonus shortsword attack (light weapon). Damage is d6+DEX and d6 (no DEX), for 10 damage.

Using TWF with Dual Wielder (if variant human)
Make a longsword attack and bonus longsword attack. Damage is d8+STR and d8 (no STR), for 9 + STR mod damage.

Level 3-4: Kensei subclass

No TWF
Make a longsword attack (monk weapon) and bonus unarmed strike. Damage d8+DEX and d4+DEX, for 13 damage average.

Using TWF
Make a shortsword attack (light weapon) and bonus shortsword attack (light weapon). Damage is d6+DEX and d6 (no DEX), for 10 damage.

Using TWF with Dual Wielder (if variant human)
Make a longsword attack and bonus longsword attack. Damage is d8+DEX and d8 (no DEX), for 12 damage.

NOTE: both cases DENY Agile Parry because you aren't making an unarmed strike as part of the "attack" action (no TWF uses the bonus action).

To gain Agile Parry's +2 AC:

No TWF
Makes an unarmed strike attack (Agile Parry requirement) and bonus unarmed strike. Damage is d4+DEX and d4+DEX, for 11 damage average.

Using TWF:
Not possible RAW to gain Agile Parry.

Using TWF with Dual Wielder (if variant human)
Again, not possible RAW to gain Agile Parry.

VERDICT: You are trading +2 AC (Agile Parry) for +2 damage (no TWF with longsword and unarmed strike for 13 damage).

Level 5+ the damage difference decreases as the martial arts die increases. By the time it reaches d8, there is no point in attacking with longsword. shrug

He doesnt want to fight with the two weapons. Just hold them.

A 3rd level Dex/ Wisdom 16 Vuman (or Clineage) Kensai (Dual wielder feat) holding two weapons (lets say Katanas/ Longswords):

AC (Base) 16
+Holding both Katanas (Dual wielder): AC 17
+Using Agile Parry to attack with a kick as an unarmed strike with his Attack action: AC 19.

If he does so (uses the Attack action to kick while holding 2 katanas), he cannot use TWF to attack with the off-hand Katana as a bonus action (as his kick is NOT a melee weapon, he is not eligible for TWF even with Dual Wielder feat). He can still use Martial arts bonus action and Kick again though (or Flurry as a bonus action and do so twice).

When he reaches 5th level, this changes a bit. Now he can take the Attack action while wielding 2 katanas, use Agile parry, attack once with a kick (for Agile Parry to trigger), and then make a second attack (via Extra Attack) with a Katana as part of the Attack action.

As he has now used the Attack action, and has also attacked with a melee weapon as part of that action (it doesn't need to be light thanks to DW) the pre-condition of TWF has been met, and he can attack again with the Katana as a bonus action (thanks to TWF/ DW) or he can kick again (martial arts) as a bonus action, or flurry and kick twice (as a bonus action).

By this stage his Dex should also be 18, so he effectively has an AC of 20 most rounds, and is making 2 Katana attacks, and a single Unarmed strike attack each round (or one Katana attack, and 2 unarmed strikes each round with Martial arts), or one Katana and three unarmed strikes (when he flurries).

1d8+4, 1d8+4, 1d6+4 most rounds (at AC 20) with Stunning fist when he hits is OK.

Personally, I'd rather just go a Vuman Monk with the Fighting initiate feat and Unarmed Fighting Style so your unarmed strikes are dealing 1d8 damage from 1st level, but hey. When your Monk martial arts dice catches up, retrain the ASI or simply swap it for a different F/S (Blind fighting is quite thematic).
 


6ENow!

I don't debate opinions.
He doesnt want to fight with the two weapons. Just hold them.
Why do you keep quoting me?

I am showing the OP how the options play out (if that isn't obvious enough for you). In fact, I have said repeatedly to ignore TWF--it is the worst option really.

Thanks to Tashas, longswords can be Monk weapons from 2nd level (provided you're proficient) for all Monks.
That could be, certainly, but I am not very familiar with all the new "stuff" (read "crap" IMO) that Tasha's offers.
 

Why do you keep quoting me?

Because this is a forum, and that's what happens.

I am showing the OP how the options play out (if that isn't obvious enough for you). In fact, I have said repeatedly to ignore TWF--it is the worst option really.

It is obvious to me, but you missed some options.

But I agree; TWF on a monk is a poor choice (unless you happen to have 2 sick magical weapons that are Monk weapons for you).
 




FWIW, I would probably go with the ASI until the DEX is maxed out and then go Dual Wielder if I want the +1 to AC.
After you have maxed out DEX you can increase WIS for +1 AC.

The feat would really need to increase AC by more than one pip for it to be worthwhile, since monks gain no benefit from the other aspects.
Monk's weapons can always be used with dexterity. Kensei can be any weapon as long as it is not heavy.
Or special (no net or lance).
Thanks to Tashas, longswords can be Monk weapons from 2nd level (provided you're proficient) for all Monks
Which means "provided you are an elf". You could take the weapon master feat, but I would be more inclined to use Dedicated Weapon to turn one of those simple ranged weapons that monks are automatically proficient in but are not monk weapons into a monk weapon - you only get one.
 


Clineage or Vuman with weapon master, MC character, or any Race with a martial weapon proficiency (which you can swap for sword) which is Githyanki, Dwarves, Elves and a few others.
Hobgoblins.

I still think it's more useful with a ranged weapon though. With the exception of a whip, any melee weapon will eventually be obsoleted by fists, and the best eligible ranged weapon is the shortbow, which you are proficient in by default. It can be a nice low level bonus if it comes as part of a package, but it is never worth using build-resources to acquire.
 
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6ENow!

I don't debate opinions.
After you have maxed out DEX you can increase WIS for +1 AC.

The feat would really need to increase AC by more than one pip for it to be worthwhile, since monks gain no benefit from the other aspects.
Hmm... that is a good point. I doubt (using standard array or point-buy) many builds would max out both DEX and WIS and have feats left over for Dual Wielder. I mean, a Mountain Dwarf with two +2 could begin with DEX and WIS 17, but then you would need your level 4, 8, and 12 ASIs to max them out. So, best case scenario such a PC wouldn't take Dual Wielder for the AC +1 bonus until level 16! Even with rolling scores, it is unlikely (unless you roll REALLY lucky) to get it before level 12. shrug

So, yeah, no reason whatsoever for a monk to take Dual Wielder in the long run.
 

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