Agile Riposte question

[Willtell]

Is this feat from d20 modern to powerful for use in a dnd game?

Agile Riposte
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Dodge.
Benefit: Once per round, if the opponent the character has designated as his or her dodge target (see the Dodge feat) makes a melee attack or melee touch attack against the character and misses, the character may make an attack of opportunity with a melee weapon against that opponent. Resolve and apply the effects from both attacks simultaneously.
Even a character with the Combat Reflexes feat can?t use the Agile Riposte feat more than once per round. This feat does not grant more attacks of opportunity than the character is normally allowed in a round.

 

[Taren Seeker]

I think I would allow it. It would make dodge more useful which is OK with me.

I would probably add that the PC can only make a regular attack, to prevent trips, disarms and grapples from being used. That would make the feat too powerful IMO.

Also add combat reflexes as a prereq to up the cost a bit, or a higher dex requirement such as 15.

 

[pawsplay]

Considering it allows one additional attack per round under very specific circumstances, I don't see a problem. I don't see the rationale for restricting the kinds of attack you can make, as it is resolved simultaneously with the triggering attack. If you tripped them, they would be tripped, but you would still take damage.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Tripping, disarming and the like could spoil an opponent's full attack action, which may lend too much weight to the feat.

Especially consider trip: if successful, PC's can consistently get up to 2 extra attacks per round. I don't think this is an unusual scenario for a PC that would be interested in this feat.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Tripping, disarming and the like could spoil an opponent's full attack action, which may lend too much weight to the feat.

Tripping doesn't spoil your full attack; you can attack from a prone position to finish it off.

-Hyp.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Is this feat from d20 modern to powerful for use in a dnd game?

Agile Riposte
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Dodge.
Benefit: Once per round, if the opponent the character has designated as his or her dodge target (see the Dodge feat) makes a melee attack or melee touch attack against the character and misses, the character may make an attack of opportunity with a melee weapon against that opponent. Resolve and apply the effects from both attacks simultaneously.
Even a character with the Combat Reflexes feat can?t use the Agile Riposte feat more than once per round. This feat does not grant more attacks of opportunity than the character is normally allowed in a round.

I'm confused. Why do you resolve both attacks simultaneously when you need to wait and see if the opponent's attack misses to know whether the feat is activated in the first place?

 

[Taren Seeker]

Tripping doesn't spoil your full attack; you can attack from a prone position to finish it off.

-Hyp.

IME, the -4 spoils it more often then not, and being prone while in melee with PC's with 2 handed weapons and power attack is a BAD place to be.

Not ending your turn prone is the smart bet.

Magus: Good point. I guess it's because of the wonky nature of Aoo's and interrupts.

 

[Garnfellow]

Is this feat from d20 modern to powerful for use in a dnd game?

Probably. About six months ago, one of the players in our fantasy d20 game chose this feat for his fighter. Frankly, as DM I'm now looking hard at getting rid of Agile Riposte altogether. The player, obviously, really likes it -- but Agile Riposte feels just a little too good. This feat gets used all the time in combat.

Somewhere online I read a comment from Andy Collins to the effect that, in retrospect, the WotC designers thought that Agile Riposte was possibly too good for the core rules, which is why they didn't include it along with the other d20 Modern feats in the 3.5 revision of D&D.

I would expect a nerfed version to appear in a future WotC product. In fact, I was surprised that one wasn't in the Complete Warrior.

Until a nerfed version appears, I'd recommend leaving this feat as written out of your game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Somewhere online I read a comment from Andy Collins to the effect that, in retrospect, the WotC designers thought that Agile Riposte was possibly too good for the core rules, which is why they didn't include it along with the other d20 Modern feats in the 3.5 revision of D&D.

I think the theory is that it's proportionally less-valuable in d20 Modern, because melee combat is not quite such an inevitable occurence.

In D&D, melee happens all the time, so the feat gets used all the time.

In d20 Modern, the feat is of no use when people are shooting at you... which is a more likely combat event than a thug with a baseball bat, in many cases.

-Hyp.

 

[Norfleet]

If I were to adapt such a thing for D&D, I'd decouple it from Dodge entirely, and instead make it something that comes into effect when you choose the total defense option. That would make combat have a somewhat more realistic feel to it. As a veteran of several knife fights, I can tell you that two combatants in a knife fight do not hurl themselves at each other from the get-go and attempt to hack each other to bits. There's a fair amount of circling and preliminary probing, none of which lends itself to an actual attack, because realistically, the biggest way to create an opening to be attacked through, is to actually commit to an attack: In a fight, your opponent is always most open at the moment he decides to commit to an actual attack. Thus, a large portion of the battle involves an extended period of preliminary circling and light probing, which certainly can last far longer than the 6 seconds of a combat round. For somebody go and make 4 attacks in one 6-second round would be incredibly hasty and amount to spending a goodly portion of the round slashing. That's simply not a terribly realistic fighting model.