Alienist (from Complete Arcane) - worth it ?

[Particle_Man]

I would like to make an alienist PC one day...I was looking at the wu jen class...Would it make a good viable choice power wise?

A weak base class combined with a weak prestige class? I guess it depends on your conception of "viable choice", since it certainly isn't optimized.

 

[frankthedm]

That is a good idea. Since both Constructs and Oozes are immune to crits & sneak attack...

It would kinda make their Augmented Summoning pre-req a waste, though.

-- N

Have you looked at astral constructs? Their HP is increadable. It is like already getting the Con boost. And they grant far more control that the Summon monster spells.

Astral constructs act as directed by their creators. As a free action, a construct’s manifester can direct the construct to attack particular enemies, use specific tactics or powers, perform other actions, or do nothing at all. The construct does exactly what its creator directs it to do.

 

[Nifft]

Have you looked at astral constructs? Their HP is increadable. It is like already getting the Con boost.

Yes. Very true. That's why I totally agree they'd be a good replacement for Pseudonatural critters -- they're excellent at combat, and that makes them worth having exclusively, since you're giving up a lot of spell-like ability flexibility to get them.

My point was that Augmented Summoning becomes a half-wasted feat, which it was not originally.

Perhaps allow it to function as Boost Construct instead?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dragon Vindaloo]

A weak base class combined with a weak prestige class? I guess it depends on your conception of "viable choice", since it certainly isn't optimized.

I was just wondering because I've not played either class before nor am I much of a powergamer. What would you say their weak points are?

 

[Bad Paper]

Particle_Man is being a troll. Ignore.

Wu Jen + Alienist seems like a fine combo, with lots of good flavor to boot. I might wait longer to enter the PrC than I would as a wizard, though, to pick up elemental mastery and maybe another spell secret before venturing off into the Far Realm. Or maybe interleave the classes a bit.

The thing that would really set this character off is your choices of taboos. You gotta think of some good alien taboos, like

• never looking up
• being completely nocturnal
• subsisting entirely on blood (choose a "flavor")

or what have you. Let the alienist flavor bleed into the wu jen, and for the Old Ones' sake, don't dress like a friggin geisha!

<tangent>
I started another thread on this subject, and no one bit, but I can't see any reason that an alienist/archmage couldn't turn the Extra Summoning into a High Arcana Spell-Like Ability. That's a nice trick, to basically pay one wu jen fifth-level spell slot plus that freebie alienist slot for two floating highest-level summonses per day (with no components, either!). So you might keep an eye out for archmage after alienist. You'll need to take another Spell Focus and that blasted Skill Focus. Maybe your DM would let you trade one of the "toughness" hit point sets (mad certainty, insane certainty) for Skill Focus (spellcraft) instead. If you are considering archmage, then make sure your choice of wu jen element and spell focus feats mesh well with the archmage's schtick, like mastery of elements and mastery of shaping. If all this is too complicated, then dump it.
</tangent>

Wu jen don't get a familiar. Are you planning on Obtain Familiar or are you just going to ignore the alienist's familiar abilities/pseudonatural familiar? Probably just ignore it.

 

[Hussar]

Just like to second that bit about the weasels. Whacking a target for 2-5 d4 points of Con/round means that critters go down HARD. Since you pretty much never miss because of the true strike, you have some pretty nasty damage.

The trick is to pick summonings that have only one attack. Don't bother with the claw/claw/bite critters, go for that one great hit. Anything with improved grapple/constrict like the giant constrictor snake, is a good bet. Go for large numbers over one big critter. Yes, losing out on the true demons and the like hurts, but, the fact that your summonings are guaranteed a hit each makes up for that a lot.

 

[Particle_Man]

I was just wondering because I've not played either class before nor am I much of a powergamer. What would you say their weak points are?

The person saying that I am being a troll is being a troll. Ignore him.

The weaknesses of the Alienist have been detailed in this thread, so I won't go into them.

The weakness of the Wu Jen? Effectively they are Wizards without bonus feats. The spell secret power for a spell gained at level 3 does not help that Wu Jen much at level 12, while the wizard that gains Empower Spell at level 5 can still use it effectively at level 15. The wizard can also specialize to gain more spells per day than the Wu Jen. The Wizard does not have to deal with either Taboos or an Alignment restriction. The Wizard has a slightly better skill list.

The Wizard has way more wotc and 3rd party support than the Wu Jen. The Wu Jen gets different spells, but with so many extra books coming out with new spells for Wizards and few to no new spells for Wu Jen, guess who wins that one?

On the Wu Jen's side you get watchful spirit and elemental mastery, and a few spells that have not yet been duplicated on the wizard spell list (but as time goes by, and more books come out...). Not bad, but not enough to balance out what the Wu Jen loses.

If you want to take the Wu Jen anyway, I recommend you get Complete Mage as at least it gives *some* support for the Wu Jen (like feats to modify what the Watchful Spirit does).