Alignment: Is 'always' really 'always'?

[Hawken]

I'm in a an online game currently in the middle of a discussion on this topic. The DM made mention of a Good vampire in the city (the PCs are all Paladin policemen). We're all discussing this and I am stating that vampires cannot be Good (except, of course, for DM hand waving). He isn't forcing the issue either, instead he's seeing where the discussion is headed.

My reasons for stating that vampires cannot be Good are pretty simple and straightforward:
1) MM says so. Core rules. Alignment for the vampire entry is Always Evil.

2) Moral reasons. Vampires can only exist/continue to exist through the intentional infliction of pain and suffering (torture) on others by neck bites, blood drain and loss of constitution.

While I understand the DM can hand wave the first reason away, the second one isn't so easy. I know he's going for variety (there are drow, goblins, etc., running around the same city as elves, dwarves and humans), and I'm not telling him how to run his game either. This is just an ongoing discussion and I'm curious to hear from you guys what you think of this and if you think there are any monsters that could/should be exempted from the "always" part of alignment.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've been told that when it comes to the alignment of an entire race, "always" is actually more like "95%." I have no source to quote, and i don't particularly agree with that. But I see a lot of people and most of my players agree that is what always means.

 

[Elethiomel]

2) Moral reasons. Vampires can only exist/continue to exist through the intentional infliction of pain and suffering (torture) on others by neck bites, blood drain and loss of constitution.

Rules aside, keeping the Tarrasque sleeping under the city from waking up by continually draining its Constitution seems like a Good act to me.

Now there probably isn't a hypothetical Tarrasque under the city, kept asleep by a cult of Good vampires. But are you sure the vampire's blood drain is painful? In popular culture, it is sometimes portrayed as pleasurable. Yeah, it leaves you weaker but unless you're going to go out being attacked by monsters or contract a terrible disease, it's not going to horribly affect your day-to-day affairs, especially if you're living in leisure or have a non-physical job.

In short, you are making assumptions on how vampires work in this GM's campaign. They're already bending the rules (allowing an Always Evil monster to be Good); other rules can be bent too.


As for how I interpret the "Always Evil" monster entries? I usually don't follow alignment strictures for monsters at all, as most of my campaigns are homebrew and as such monsters may or may not fill the same roles in my world as they do in the official settings. I have repeatedly considered ignoring alignment altogether, as I've seen it limit roleplaying many times. Characters are supposed to be more complex than a two letter combination. Many players let the alignment define the character, rather than defining the character first and then letting the character's actions determine what alignement box it gets pigeonholed into.

 

[rgard]

I personally wouldn't sweat the vampire being good aligned. It's a plot device your team needs to navigate.

As I DM, I always throw curve balls to the PCs with respect to hit dice, alignment and special abilities. I do this mainly because some of the players have the MMs memorized and it keeps them from being too over-confindent. I generally support the changes with back stories.

To be honest I do this less frequently in 3.5 as being able to add PC classes to monsters usually gives me enough flexibility to switch things up without modifiying the base monster too much.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Dagredhel]

"Unique or one in a million exceptions" is how it is described in the MMII intro.

Doing permanent harm (Constitution drain) to other sentient beings would generally be a very bad thing. But if the DM were to allow it, a Good Vampire might restrict his or her feedings to animals. A vampiric spellcaster might even restore lost Constitution via a spell or magic device. A vampire who restricted his predation to extremely evil people or creatures would arguably be treading the line.

A variant vampire who did Constitution damage rather than drain would have a much easier time of it, and could subsist on a small group of regular donors.

 

[Vegepygmy]

My reasons for stating that vampires cannot be Good are pretty simple and straightforward:
1) MM says so. Core rules. Alignment for the vampire entry is Always Evil.

Yes, well...those who live by the MM, die by the MM.

MM, page 305:
Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary predisposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions.

2) Moral reasons. Vampires can only exist/continue to exist through the intentional infliction of pain and suffering (torture) on others by neck bites, blood drain and loss of constitution.

While I understand the DM can hand wave the first reason away, the second one isn't so easy.

Bah. A vampire can drink the blood of cows and other such animals. If eating a cow isn't evil, drinking its blood isn't, either.

 

[roguerouge]

Oh, he probably just killed a gypsy girl and got cursed to bear a soul until he has one true moment of happiness: http://www.buffyworld.com/angel/videos/angel001.mpg

 

[green slime]

Personally, I have a strong dislike for campaigns that allow "good" undead. But that is just me, not a reflection on any particular DM.

That said, it doesn't prevent an undead from doing a good deed or two on the journey through unlife. It just isn't enough to ever weigh up their horrendous existence.

 

[Allegro]

One thing I always found interesting is a good vampire will detect positive on a detect evil and detect good spells. This showcases in the rules how a good vampire is a tenuous state of being. The nature of vampirism is evil and only a very strong will could possibly escape this. To quote buffy humans are "happy meals with legs".

A detect and slay kind of paladin can run afoul of these alignment trapped creatures from a RBDM.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

"Always" reliably means always - until such time as -I- the DM decide it shouldn't.