Alignment. Who needs it?

[Buttercup]

Hmm. I don't allow evil PCs in my games, and I've often toyed with the idea of disallowing CN, though I have never actually done so. Generally though, alignment is mostly a guideline rather than a straight jacket. Well, execept for paladins, who I hold to a strict moral code.

Right now the party has a cleric whose moral compas seems to place limits on everyone else's choices. It's pretty interesting. They're going along with it, but I think the player, who usually plays low wisdom, chaotic types, is finding it a challenge to play a lawful, wise cleric. She'd rather run amok.

 

[Aaron2]

I have never really understood the need for alignment; Monte's Arcana Unearthed, if no other game, showed that you don't need alignment in D20.

Yeah, Monte's silly rant against alignments* is the main reason I decided to never buy another Malhavoc product again. Up until them I bought them all. Without Detect and Smite-like abilities alignment doesn't matter much, but it doesn't hurt.


Aaron

*He wrote the DMG, he should understand the rules. He actually said that with alignments, you "must shoehorn your character's outlook". I mean, come on. That logic wouldn't last 5 minutes on r.g.f.d.

 

[Stone Dog]

How is this different from normal D&D?


Aaron (hasn't had his daily recomended allowance of alignment flame wars)

Generally it isn't all that different, but normal D&D tends to be a bit more on the black and white side rather than shades of grey.

Plus standard D&D likes to lock races down into alignments for little reason. Eberron gold dragons cannot be assumed to be good and were rats are just as likely to be good as evil depending on how they are treated and raised.

Heavy sigh. Lunch is over. Back to work.

 

[Ibram]

My players have learned that I play it fairly fast and lose with the alignment rules (i never bother determining the alignments of my NPC's). For most classes its not that important what your alignment its, and for those classes tthat do care the players know how to handle the character.

I've also followed the Ravenloft track and banned alignment sensing spells (not that my players have ever made great use of them).

Now I do feel that alignment can be a good tool for begining roleplayers, it places boundries on the character that are somewhat easy to understand.

 

[teitan]

I have periods where I don't think alignment is necessary but then again... it isn't in all D20 games.

ALignment is a deep rooted part of fantasy, not necessary but important in the work that influenced the creation of Dungeons & Dragons, particularly Michael Moorcock's work with Elric. Alignment was a spiritual dedication to a particular principle, still is in some settings and was in Greyhawk for many years, look at the Circle of 8 and their struggles to keep the balance in the Flanaess.

Now though, in D&D at least, alignment is ingrained into the system. Look at damage reduction for creatures with the Holy requirement. Look at the magic system with different types of protection. Alignment is an important part of D&D in ways that go beyond your character and it carried over into D20 Modern's Allegiance and magic system as well.

Comparing D&D and AU is like comparing KISS and Aerosmith, both are hard rock but they are different flavours of hard rock but definitely not the same thing. D&D and AU are both fantasy but they have different influences, D&D's influences are more pulp oriented whereas AU is more literary influenced. D&D is old school fantasy and AU is more Guin, DOnaldson and George Martin. D&D is Elric, Conan and Kull, AU is Thomas COvenant etc.

Both games rule the world, kind of like me.

 

[Liolel]

Alingment is a fine system as long as it's remembered that alingment is based on your characters actions not the other way around. This means that if your playing a lg fighter but in the end you don't want to play a lawful character, you just need to start playing your character differently, maybe come up with a small roleplaying reason for the change (your character in gaining experince has found out that his lifestyle does not suit him, and starts shifting towards a more free lifestyle.) As your actions change a dm should shift your alignment to ng or even cg depending on how you act, and if your actions are to subtly different you can always talk to the dm about wanting your alingment to change.

Some play styles the system isn't good for are people that want to play morally dubious characters and not have a label stuct on like evil even if they rightfully deserve it. This isn't always trying to get away with evil deeds, but it just might be a person who favors shades of gray and then the system might not be right for them.

I have to say that planescape painted two pictures of alingment to me in the same world, one of black and white and the general alingment of the outsiders and planes. But it also painted shades of gray, with the factions who were very loosely based on alingment if at all. All the factions could have people of radicaly different alingments in them on at least one end of the faction. The aranachists I could see having cel members that wanted chaos to reign, and cg members who saw the factions as being to powerful and believed that power corrupts, and was just trying to get the power spread around more evenly. I could see le members of the guvener's (faction based on documenting the laws of planes) who wanted to find ways to exploit the laws of the planes for their own power and lg members who wanted to find better ways to help people, and ln members who were just in pursuit of knowladge.

The alignment system does put a certain black and white in the game, but the dm has a lot of control over how much black and white. They can have characters of radicaly different alignments working together because they have some common ideal even if for different reasons. They can protray the enemy as mercyless blackguards who want to kill as many people as they can, or misguided people that want whats best for a certain group even at the expense of others. They can have all orcs be inredemably evil, or the majority just be neutrals struggling to survive in a harsh society.

Sorry about the rambling so I'll just sum up my point. The alingment system is only what you make out of it, no more, no less.

 

[Sir Elton]

I use a virtues and passions system to detail player character and NPC behavior. The Alignment is there for general reference.

 

[ph0rk]

Alignment isn't totally necessary, as long as you don't allow people using barbarian rage while getting a paladin's divine grace, you're fine.

In other words, watch the classes that are alignment restricted and don't mix em.

 

[Nightfall]

Seem to me if you don't want alignments in your game, you want to play Arcana Unearthed.

Course that does mean you start tossing out D&D staples left and right but it's a good system.

Now for me, alignments make sense cause without them, the Titans would still be around and it would be just the Material plane.

 

[Nightfall]

I have never really understood the need for alignment; Monte's Arcana Unearthed, if no other game, showed that you don't need alignment in D20.

But some people feel very comfortable with it. I would never deny such rules to those who want them; I dropped alignment back in the 80s and have never looked back.

Personal tastes, I suppose.

This from the guy that also has NO planes or planar stuff.