All PC dead, what to do?

[gizmo33]

the reason i dont include any random battles in my campaign world. Whats the point of them.

I say the same thing about gnomes, but some people like them I guess.

The gamer (as opposed to story teller) style values simulation, IMO, and random events are a better simulation of real life than DM-determined events, and so lend a certain air of plausibility. A "game" style gamer wants to say "cool - it's like it's a real world".

The story-teller style requires a greater suspension of disbelief and cedes more control to the DM to manipulate outcomes and events. Whereas a "game"-style gamer wants to be convinced that he's part of a believable fantasy world, a "story-teller" is content to first believe that he is.

A "gamer" is scared because he knows that TPK is a possibility. A "story-teller" gamer is scared because he wants to pretend to be scared. A "gamer" believes he's taking risks because the risks are obvious in the rules. The "story-teller" pretends that he's taking risks and ignores evidence to the contrary.

A gamer doesn't find TPKs to be fun. But arguing that they should be removed is like arguing that scorekeeping should be removed from sports because losing isn't fun. To a gamer, suriving is not as fun if getting killed is not an option. You can't have the yin without the yang.

 

[Thomas Percy]

1. One check was obviously not enough as they would receive a new check each round.
2. Why wasn't there any screaming when people die?
3. Is there anyone else in the inn.

ad 1. But from the other side. You are playing assassin. Your DM demands you to make move silently check each round. Probability you fail is 5%/rd, so everytime after 20rd you are lame.
IMHO one chcek was enough, because there was one challenge (reach victim silently). Now I think, I could make two checks (open lock, and reach victim).

ad 2. Are you sure, people scream dying? I assumend Junda (the killer) cloged (closed up) victim's mouth by hand (or pillow) and thrust dagger into eyes.

ad 3. There are many, many folk in the inn, but it happened in the middle of the night.


As a DM I choose an adventure for next weekend just after finished game session. Next (usualy the same evening) I read this module. Next, every evening (monday to friday), when I'm laying in my bed, but not sleeping yet, I pre-run thic module from both (villains and the PCs) points of view. One of these nights, I "was" Junda a few minutes, and this Junda was treated in these few moments the same as PC (she made plans, felt fear, made "dice" rolls). So I decided she oils the hinges, and all the rest of details. In this pre-run she thrust a dagger into eye of Eberk - dwarf cleric from PHB 3e (I choose characters for these pre-runs randomluy), and Eberk didn't die... because I forgot (it all happened in my head, about midnight, so I don't had handbook) about coup de grace Fort save.

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Throat Slitting Mania

Last time I did that as a PC, my DM didn't want to give me all the XP, because they weren't really a threat.

You got robbed.

-Samir

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Logos!

Also, for those of you throwing around playstyle labels ... feel free to check out the Threefold Model.

Technically, you can run an RBDM scenario under any of its approaches (e.g., dramatist, gamist, and/or simulationist).

-Samir Asad (CE Simulationist)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Again, despite my willingness to fudge dice, I'm not anti-TPK. I've killed my share of PCs, and in fact, encourage players to design Character Trees (as in the DarkSun campaign setting) to speed things up when someone does die.

I'm against TPKs that are not the result of action or inaction on the part of the PCs, but rather the result of anomalous die rolls.

IOW, heroes can die in their sleep because they didn't check the cave for living inhabitants, but heroes shouldn't die in their sleep because nobody could roll over a 6 and wake up.

 

[reanjr]

Why no chance to hear the lock being picked or the doors being opened? It seems like it was set up to be a TPK. What was the NPC's move silent bonus?

Not much of a chance anyway, +1 DC /10 ft. distance, -10 check for sleeping. Not to mention, I would make the decision that opening a lock is a quiet process and impose an additional -2 circumstance penalty.

Now I WOULD have had additional checks for the killing of each PC. And - abstract, hit point, turn-based combat be damned - the dying PC would get a chance to make some sort of noise/commotion as he died.

 

[reanjr]

ad 2. Are you sure, people scream dying? I assumend Junda (the killer) cloged (closed up) victim's mouth by hand (or pillow) and thrust dagger into eyes.

Which would probably cause the person to violently twitch for a few seconds, perhaps knocking something over. The blood will still be flowing, and electrical pulses can still be sent after death.

 

[DonTadow]

ad 1. But from the other side. You are playing assassin. Your DM demands you to make move silently check each round. Probability you fail is 5%/rd, so everytime after 20rd you are lame.
IMHO one chcek was enough, because there was one challenge (reach victim silently). Now I think, I could make two checks (open lock, and reach victim).

ad 2. Are you sure, people scream dying? I assumend Junda (the killer) cloged (closed up) victim's mouth by hand (or pillow) and thrust dagger into eyes.

ad 3. There are many, many folk in the inn, but it happened in the middle of the night.


As a DM I choose an adventure for next weekend just after finished game session. Next (usualy the same evening) I read this module. Next, every evening (monday to friday), when I'm laying in my bed, but not sleeping yet, I pre-run thic module from both (villains and the PCs) points of view. One of these nights, I "was" Junda a few minutes, and this Junda was treated in these few moments the same as PC (she made plans, felt fear, made "dice" rolls). So I decided she oils the hinges, and all the rest of details. In this pre-run she thrust a dagger into eye of Eberk - dwarf cleric from PHB 3e (I choose characters for these pre-runs randomluy), and Eberk didn't die... because I forgot (it all happened in my head, about midnight, so I don't had handbook) about coup de grace Fort save.

If the mouth was covered woudlnt there be a grapple check that would awkaken the pc only briefly. I guess what im saying is that there are ways to dm your way out of a tpk and stay within the rules. I've never heard anyone (unless it was some exciting or climatic battle) how wonderful a tpk was.

 

[Elfdart]

There is nothing wrong with doing that. Some people don't like to just throw away 31 game sessions.

If the dummies learn to post guards while they sleep, it's not a waste of those sessions. Unless a DM is just out to kill the party, I'm of the opinion that they got the TPK they deserved. Let 'em cry.

 

[Elfdart]

What would I do?

Turn it into a capture scenario. The coup de grace was with a sap, not a shortsword, and each of the PCs was knocked out. They wake up in the prison of the guy who hired the rogue to get them, due to be questioned in a few days time. They then have the opportunity to escape from the prison, find their stuff, kick off the adventure in a new direction (and with a new enemy that they can really hate).

Thats what I'd do.

I guess that's one way to do it. After all, if all the knuckleheads are asleep, how do they know what their attacker is using?