All these Classes to choose from...... Oh My!

[Sunderstone]

I dont mind an occasional new core class but it has to be balanced and still leave something to running an older core class.

As an example..... I would really love to buy the "Complete" set of books as I like what Ive been reading of Warlocks, Favored Souls, etc. At the same time I hear bad things about the Frenzied Berserkers and a few others. So ultimately, I dont buy the "splat books" as much anymore as spending all that money on 4 or 5 books just to have the Warlock, Favored Soul, and Scout available. Same with the Marshal in the Miniatures handbook.

The Book of 9 Swords seems to fall into this category as well. As does everything lately with a "Dragon" attatched to it. One or two dragon-based classes is enough already. The Dragon based stuff is becoming more like the Drow/Drizzt fad of old.... a complete turn off. Its nice to have new options but the current trend in the books is going abit too far away from the "normal" D&D that Ive been enjoying for 24 years or so.

Maybe I'm too much of a traditional gamer so my opinion might be stricter than others, but I do use newer stuff in my campaigns too. For example I like books like the Dragonomicon and Libris Mortis for making up better enemies than PCs, as I tend to view these books as more for DMs than players.
It just looks almost like pokemon with all the new "Core" classes, etc.




Opinions?

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hm. Well, I quite like the 'Complete's up to but not including Psionic (I don't have that one at this stage.) They've been rather useful so far. Many feats, several classes, some extra rules, a number of spells - I've used a fair bit of stuff from them actually. Most of it house-ruled first, sure. But still.

The 'Dragon' books I can quite happily leave too. The Bo9S, I am unsure of. PHBII has proved useful-ish, so far - not a bad book overall, I think.

Tome of Magic has yet to see serious use here, but I'm intrigued.

Have I missed any significant ones?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't have any problem with the proliferation of base classes, as long as (as you say) there is at least a realistic attempt at balancing them re:Other base classes.

I just think some of them aren't worth much IMHO- like the Complete Warrior's version of the Samurai, the Hexblade or the Warlock.

I also think that some of the books just aren't worth a darn- I bought Races of Destiny at Half-Price Books and felt ripped off despite the discount (too much coverage of stuff adequately covered in other books).

THAT SAID- I welcome the attempts to broaden the game's horizons. Even if the designers only succeed 33% of the time in delivering high-quality critters, spells, feats or classes, each addition is a benefit for players on each side of the screen, and is even potentially revolutionary. What one designer screws up, another designer (inspired by his predecessor) may turn into RPG gold.

Heck, sometimes all that is needed is the proper context.

For instance- I have no current need for Magic of Incarnum...but I do own it. It may become the basis for a campaign in the future. Tome of Magic has potential.

OTOH, DMG 2 & PHB 2 were bought only with deeeeeeep discounts, and Book of 9 Swords, that Dragon Magic book, and the other Races books are not currently on my buy list...nor are they likely to in the forseeable future.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I use the Complete books up to but not including Psionic - and that is an intentional no buy although I use the XPH all the time in my campaigns. You should note, the Frenzied Berserker is a PrC and not a base class.

In my opinion, most base classes typical blurs the space between the core base classes. If you want a pure meatshield, pick a fighter. If you want a fighter that might be more dexterity based maybe you want a swashbuckler. If you want a fighter that can use a bit of arcane to lower enemies' defenses pick a hexblade. Those are all examples from Complete Warrior, but they work. [Others would be the scout as a pseudo ranger/rogue, a spellthief as a rogue/arcanist, etc.]

Additionally, some of the classes have a more asian feel (samurai, shugenja, wu jen, ninja). Those are easy to ignore if you don't like them. I use them, but find that players seldom take them.

Ultimately, though ... I'd buy the books for simply the PrC and feat crunch. Don't use the base classes if you don't want them. None of them overpower the original. They merely give shades of differences without having to fully multiclass.

Now, if you want an awesome book, pick up the PHB II before any Complete books. That book is awesome.

 

[smootrk]

Honestly, several of the new base classes are subpar in power level, but they have lots of great role-play potential. So when someone has the idea to play something out of the ordinary, I do not mind much, as long as I can incorporate the class in a reasonable fashion (not usually difficult - but then I feel that I have the creativity to make just about anything happen. I even have Faerunian Warforged).

I will also say that the PH2 is great for feats that make standard fighters much more desirable as well (at higher levels), in addition to the new base classes contained therein.

 

[BadMojo]

Now, if you want an awesome book, pick up the PHB II before any Complete books. That book is awesome.

I own PHB II, Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane and Complete Adventurer. Although I think some of the base classes in the Complete books are kind of bland and boring, I wouldn't prohibit them in any game I was running.

I particularly like:

Warlock (Complete Arcane)
Scout (Complete Adventurer)
Duskblade (PHB II)

Anyway, I get tons of use out of the three books listed above with PHBII and Complete Adv. winning by a slim margin.

 

[Psion]

I allow the complete books but only allow specific core classes* from them. I prefer a tidier stable of general core classes, and feel that classes that are too specific are better "kit built" or handled by PrCs. I think any core class should make sense as a first level character. Finally, I feel that due to support issues, you are better off tweaking existing classes than adding new ones.

* - Yes, I use core class to mean "20 level class" - back off terminology nazis!

 

[Psion]

IAdditionally, some of the classes have a more asian feel (samurai, shugenja, wu jen, ninja).

The CW Samurai has nothing resembling an Asian feel.

Now, if you want an awesome book, pick up the PHB II before any Complete books. That book is awesome.

Eh. PHBII has the highest ban ratio of any of the books for me as far as classes go.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

I particularly like:

Warlock (Complete Arcane)
Scout (Complete Adventurer)
Duskblade (PHB II)

Yeah, those are probably my three favorites, with perhaps the favored soul winning out over the scout. I like me some spontaneous divine casting. I usually try to PrC out by the level they get wings, though. I just don't like playing a character with wings - even if they are not overpowering at all by the level they are obtained.

Definately on the warlock and the duskblade. Both of those get the "Broken" label by people who read but don't play them. But in gameplay I've found the warlock a bit boring for long games (although terrifically fun for short games) and the Duskblade's spell list is so limited that while powerful it lack versatility completely. A party with a duskblade and no arcanist with sorely miss their arcanist!

 

[Nonlethal Force]

The CW Samurai has nothing resembling an Asian feel.

This coming from the guy with "terminology ____" in his previous post. If you read the flavor text, it is obviously wizards attempt at an asian themed class. You may not like it, but it is their attempt at an asian feel.

Eh. PHBII has the highest ban ratio of any of the books for me as far as classes go.

Hm. That's a shame, I suppose. But then again, your game, your rules. I'll not judge ya! I like the four. But I admit the knight is kinda situation specific as is the dragan shaman. But I've yet to ban any classes from the first 4 Completes, the XPH, or the PHB II. Like I said earlier, those kind of decisionas are based on the players around the table. No need to judge one from another.